Milt,

#3 #8 #9, #10, #11.

SessieLouBob,

I see nothing in that agreement that requires you to allow the puppies to play together. If you are uncomfortable with it, don't allow it. I am not sure if much of this agreement is enforcable. It is not well written and it leaves too much to interpretation. Based on this agreement you have all the responsibility and they have way more control over your dog and you than is reasonable. I think that would make it tough to enforce as it isn't reasonable in terms of transfer of ownership of the dog.

Well said Richard.

I'm not to worried about the agreement, personnely I don't think it's worth the paper it's writen on. Dogs are concidered person property (here in canada, I dont' know about the states) That's why you can be sue if you dog distroyes something or injures another. She's bought and paid for, and I have custudy of her. I don't think I will have any problems with the breeder. The breeder has called every night for the first week we had her, then he called one week later. We don't feed her dog food, commercial that is. He wanted to see her, I guess to check her health, and I wanted to show him the "trickes" she doing. He was impressed with her, she strong and healthy, and very smart. She's just a bit bigger than her sister. And her coat is alot better condition. He weighted her and measured her. He played with her. Wanted to see if the pups go up and down the stairs, Mine was first every time.
As far as the fighting, after reading all the responses I'm assured that it was ok, I will confirm this when I talk to him next and ask about my concerns.
I want to stay on his good side, some of the rotties he's rescued have had tumers. Rotties are prone to tumers. I've been asking him about diet, because after his vet removes the tumer the dog is getting healther. I believe in diet alot. I own a restaurant and attend to puppies food everyday.
Anyway I'm rambling here. I want to thank you all for you help.
This old dog trainner needes to learn new tricks. I've been reading alot of the posting in here, and I'm amazed. I'd say its been 20 years or more since i trainned dogs. Things sure have changed ie crating, electric collars. I guess I'll be trainning sophie the "old fashion way" LOL Thanks Sessie LouBob

You have the right attitude about this breeder. He is too overbearing. I may have mis-understood your first post. It seems your question was more about the behavior of the pups more than this breeder. Good luck with your puppy. You will find many people here who will be glad to help you as much as possible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am NOT, and I say this proudly, a civil law attorney and do NOT dispense legal advice. You are looking for opinions and suggestions.......so here it goes.

It seems to me that you are new to the whole dog ownership thing. I think that, subsequent to this "contractual agreement" you have with the breeder, you would not #1 deal with aformention breeder again, nor #2 would you allow yourself to be so severely restricted by such an agreement.

It seems that this contract is very subjective in that, the breeder has provided him / herself with the ability to change the rules as the "game" progresses. If you quoted it ver batim, it seems to have been drafted by a legal mind no more powerful than that of a paralegal. No cheap shots here; paralegals are not lawyers the same as State Troopers are not FBI behavioral profilers. This gives you room to work. Ultimately it comes down to this, and I think it was Chuck who made the point, is the breeder prepared to take legal action to enforce the contract in the event that it is deemed a legal binding document/ and secondly,in the same vein, are you prepared to take legal action to sever the contract.

Normally, I would recommend you have a "no s.....r" with the breeder. How ever, from the VERY LITTLE I know about said individual, they don't appear to be very "real world" oriented; evidenced by the fact that they breed rescued dogs and have upwards of 30 on the property and stipulate surrender of a sold animal in the instance of a contractual violation. Knowing this is an overgeneralization, take no offense; none is intended.

Ultimately, YOU chose to bring this puppy home and care for it the best way possible, otherwise you would not be seeking the advice of these fine minds, to the exclusion of my feeble input. You are concerned for the welfare of your pup and that is abundantly apparent; you are searching for support to make the decision you know is ultimately best for your animal. The only question I really have for you is this; is the behavior you describe truly fighting or is it rough play with virtually no chance of protracted injury both physical and behavioral and are there other issues with the breeder about which you are concerned? I wish you the best of luck.

I feel after reading the previous posts on this thread, that a more open-minded approach is in order here. Firstly, Az Trooper, she clearly stated that she has much experience with dog ownership, including Rotties. Secondly, while the contract is a bit strict, and probably not fully enforceable, it at least shows that this guy truly cares about his dogs and who they are placed with and under what living conditions. That's also evident by the fact that he fosters so many rescues. While I would not fully agree with breeding rescue dogs, it was never stated that this dog was a product of such breeding. But on the same token, a rescue dog does not automatically mean an inferior dog. Dogs are given up for so many reasons, some highly pedigreed dogs, so I really don't think that should have any bearing on this problem. I will agree that the breeder is a bit overbearing, and I would not personally take too kindly to a phone call every single day from him, but periodic check-ups are reasonable. Think of yourselves having to give up your own dogs to some stranger for whatever reason, and agonizing over the feelings that the dog is not loved as dearly or treated as well as you had treated him. If a breeder feels this way about giving up puppies, then he must truly be concerned for their welfare.

As for the puppy agression...puppies play hard, plain and simple. And at 9 weeks, this is still a very young puppy. They are still developing their social skills. If they are physically injuring one another, then most definitely break it up. If as was previously mentioned one is obviously trying to get away from the other and seek solice, then too break it up. But puppy wrestling is very normal and can teach us a lot about the dog's temperament.

I guess my main point here is give the breeder a bit of slack. He doesn't sound like the totally bad guy a lot of you make him out to be. Yes, there are some problems that SessieLouBob is not comfortable with, but I don't think it's something to end a friendship over and get rid of the dog. Just work them out. If the breeder sees that you are just as concerned for the dog as he is, even if your methods are different, I'm sure he will ease up. JMO!

well said Beth. Maybe the breeder was after something else??? Maybe he's a nice guy?

milt

Gotta go on the side of trooper and Richard here. This contract, the way it is worded is silly. That being said, the original question was more about the behavior rather than the breeder. This is where I may have missed the point earlier. I'll respectfully agree to disagree with Beth and Milt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My concern has always been about the agressiveness that I saw that night we visited the breeder.
He is not breeding rescued dogs. He has one breeding female, his own dog. Most of the dogs have been spayed/neutred. He has some rescued dogs with there papers, if he finds good homes. There owners dropped them off there. He even has one german rottie female with her papers.
I do think he cares very much for this litter because it's his own. He did have some 3 1/2 months old, with there tailes, because he said the city got there to late.
As far as the contract goes. I personnely dont think it would hold up in court.
I don't think we will have any problems AT ALL. The telephone converations that first week, went along the lines of, did she poop today, what color was it, what was the texture, All questions I gladly answered. The night we visited, h said he was going to come down to are restaurant that day, but he didn't make it, I had no problem going over to his house that night.
He has since come to our restaurant, and not even seen the dog. He's offered us a collar for her, we already have one, he's give us Sectrol, a flea and tick foam.
I want to thank you all for your concern and wonderfull advise. I'm happy to have a place to come and talk to others that care and are knowledgeable with experience. Thanks Sessie