If you are happy thats good...but....he will never have the genetics to do serious work. It's just not there.

Originally posted by Patrick Hennigan:
but....he will never have the genetics to do serious work. It's just not there. Gimme a break. To patently say ANY DOG can't work, I don't care if it's an american bred rescue from the freaking pound, when you haven't seen it, is ignorant.

Peter I've heard that before here but I yet to see something that he would not try or accomplish.

I think one of the stressful training exercise in PPT work is the surprise attack from down wind, the dog does not know the bad guys is there. Mat does this well, we really have to mark the saftey zone. And protecting the handler from a distance, here Mat is required to jump out of a Jeep's window and run 25 yrds to defend. He may not have a "S" on his chest like your dog Peter, but you sure can't tell by watching him work. If I was any good at all as a trainer he would have a cape on.

This is not just my opinion its all that has worked with him, he is given the title of "A Man's dog". And a lot of these guys donot like GSD, because they have seen some real weak ones.

I seen some dogs that are hot dogs, but I wouldn't want them because they are a suitcase or hospital visit waiting to happen. If you are not as a expert trainer. I don't want a dog that hot.

Even some mutts have placed in Sch3. I agree with Lee how can you say that. But I know many that think the same way. I use to until found out Mat was one or thoses (Show dogs). I'm happy as you say and bite free.

First off, DA, I don't know who you are addressing but if it is me my name is clearly shown as PATRICK. Your right...there are alot of "mutts" as you say that have gotten SchH 3's but that is why a SchH title doesnt mean much by itself. How do u think alot of show dogs get by.
Second, Lee, the statement you made shows YOUR ignorance off by itself. Nothing really I have to say here. Show dogs are $hit and the ASS is worse and rescue....scraping the bottom.
If anyone actually cares for the breed there is no place for the show line. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Pat

"DARN"

Sorry Patrick, for getting your name wrong, I work while I'm surfing this site. I use to feel the same way that a show dog is nothing. But appparently I was thinking and maybe you are thinking American show dogs. Because as it was mentioned here at one time the German dogs where one. Notice that this years Nationals winner won the breeding/conformation title also.

And shoting the mutts down that place in Shc3 they still had to past the same course as the Working bloodine dogs. I could see letting a high dollar show dog pass on merits, because of money under the table or to be made, but what possible reason would they let a mutt walk around with a Sch3 title, accept that he earned it.

I've seen some mutts do pretty good protection work. And on the opposite side I know serveral people who have bought working dogs for thousands of dollars only to find out the dog, won't and can't work. So pure breed and supposed working back ground doesn't guarantee success. There so many things that happen between 8 week and 1 year, You have to know what you are getting and research the back ground of the dog. Also enhance his training from day one.

I'm not saying that working bloodlines are not the best for working purpose, but I'm saying there are some dogs out here that have diverse working bloodline that are conformation throw outs that can do the work. Not garanteed but its a roll of the dice, some come up "7-11".

Best wishes, don't worry be happy. I am.

YEP!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
A lot of half show and working line doing fair in the protection field.

Some people that have ugly GSD's claim them to be WORKING LINE also!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> It's all a matter of what you want and plan on doing. :rolleyes: My problem is when these types of GSD are bred then we escalate the PROBLEM even more!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Too bad you changed your beliefs about show dogs...I guess you used to be right... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I agree Butch....breeding the show dogs are destroying the breed.
Hopefully this will eventually change with the new board on the SV now....
The SV conformation standard is terrible. It looks nothing like the first german shepherd. Working look structurally more like it.
Yes,a long time ago (to me!!!) they were one, but then the working went one way and show went another.
We will never agree......but if one cares for the breed they will do right by breeding for what it was meant to be....A WORKING DOG! Not a pretty(in some peoples eyes)empty shell of a dog.
So still I say....show lines DON'T have the genetic engine for serious Schutzhund/protection/etc work. Can some pass and get by? Yes....that is not what I'm saying so if you get that from this you missed the point. :rolleyes:
I gotta go....apparently I have to buy an "S" for my dogs chest. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey Patrick, I'll send you the "S" from my older male GSD as he has become a housedog. :rolleyes:
What a shame, at one time one hell of a PP dog!(hips getting worse) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It's like everything in life, some like it to be pretty and non-functional and others like it the way it was intended.

"WORKABILITY/WORKABILITY/WORKBILITY"

I'll take it over to just looking good! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Just to add my 2 cents here, Patrick, aside from GSD's....Mutts from Rescue are the best dogs in the world!!! Just my strong opinion!!!

Didn't the person who started this thread say they DID NOT want this to turn into a show vs. working slug fest?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />