I guess they have to be - I've known a fair amount of cattle that were just downright MEAN - gotta have a dog with attitude to face that down. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is the last topic I thought I would chip in on but its great. I have seen a Border Collie do some nice protection work...the dogs obedience routine would be very hard to beat due to the pure speed of the dog. It was fun to watch because the protection work was done with that same sly creeping "bankrobber" look they have when working livestock. I will add to what Earth Dog said about Australian cattle Dogs..I saw a dog who was great in protection and very tough and growling the whole way. The stick hits made the dog just dig in deeper. I kinda thought the guy who had the dog was pulling my leg about his dog doing protection work until we were standing in his barn talking and they had this steer in a horse stall because it was sick or something. The stall had Dutch Doors and the top was open and the bottom door was 5 feet tall. The steer came close to the stall opening to see what was going on and this guys dog was laying down sleeping on some straw about 10 feet away...the dog was snoring like crazy and the dog was 10 years old and had kind of a gut on him. Between puffs n his cigar(yes in the barn...I know) this old guy just barely mumbled "Rodeo get that cow" to this sleeping fat dog. I swear in 1/10 of a second that dog took one leap with only his rear toenails scraping the top of the door and he was on the steers head tearing into him. The old guy mumbles quietly "OK" and the fat old dog jumped over the 5ft door and went back to his hay bed and I swear I heard him snoring again in less than 1 minute. I have seen some incredible things done by dogs but man this might be the most impressive. The old cowboy said he couldn't title the dog because the dog couldn't track anything over 10 feet in length unless it was food.

Thanks for the reply. Yep, it's pretty amusing to watch my girl try and keep a lid on her herding instincts when she's out on the FR field. Decoys invariably can fake her out on a flee attack because she ALWAYS wants to overrun them and take them on face to face- just what she'd do when she's trying to get to a sheep's head to turn it!

On another note- has anyone out there heard of Lamprey River farm in New Hampshire? I believe their kennel name is/was Caora Con, and they had some SchH titled bc's once upon a time. I had tried to contact them a couple of years ago via snail mail but didn't get a response. Their website is quite out of date so I assume they're no longer 'in the business' as it were, which is a shame IMO- the fact that they not only had titles but dogs that had gone as far as SchH 3 is a pretty cool feat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We have a SchH 3 border collie here in B.C. Canada. I have some of the routine on video. I also have a year old border collie. He could do SchH if I chose to with him but he is my working sheep dog. You have to be careful with the 'lines'(especially in the U.S.) as you can get a variety of temperaments. This breed is bred to PLEASE the handler and the WORK with the handler. Thier drive to work usually overcomes or overrides everything else. Thus, they can get kicked, run over, etc and they will come back to work. Now...there are also some very 'soft' dogs in this breed as in any other. I would say my dog is handler sensitive , very gentle wtih people and other dogs BUT...he is brutal when working! He is not sensitive on sheep and I can give him a HARD correction when working and it bounces off him.

These are nice, steady, hard-driving dogs....not the spastic, obsessive-compulsive BCs. John, I would have to say that that seems to be the norm for dogs from working lines who get worked on a regular basis, IMO. One big reason I never got into flyball (besides the bloody NOISE)- too many psycho dogs and too many nutty border collie stereotypes. I checked out Dr. Lacy's website- VERY nice dogs! Thanks for the info.

Shelley- where are you in BC? (ah, that's British Columbia this time, not border collie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) Unfortunately I'm not that up on my Schutzhund yet (just watched my first trial a few weeks ago in Delta) but I would enjoy learning more about your experiences! I have a fair idea of working BCs around here but have heard the same warnings about different lines- same as with any breed, I suppose.
Your description of your younger dog sounds familiar. Barra has been known to work thru pulled muscles and bleeding gums (from her teeth, not the decoy) because of her drive. She is also very sensitive to my voice and actions- except while working sheep. I can give her corrections in the paddock that would totally crush her in another situation.
Any plans to attend the West Coast GSSC trial this weekend?