Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51323 - 05/27/2002 11:07 AM |
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IMO, a prong collar is the way to go here. Let's not forget that a very soft correction can still be given with a prong. The amount of force you need to put into the correction will be less to get the desired results. I hate choke collars. I like when Richard suggests starting out with a flat collar. I would then graduate to a prong. To me, choke collars= damaged neck and throat.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51324 - 05/27/2002 12:27 PM |
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I have used a prong on my last 4 dogs, all from working-lines, from about 6 months of age, and they all needed varying levels of correction. My current dog feels very, very little when in drive, and damn little when not in drive I did however (very briefly) own a Canadian show-line GSD many years back who was way too soft for even a hard choke chain correction, and he would have crumbled if I had ever used a prong on him. I have found over the years that you must make sure your dog understands 100% of what you are asking of it first, but be also be able to make very quick, effective corrections when needed. I have found that in most dogs a prong collar is the way to go. Even with most soft dogs it can be an incredible training tool if used with a gentle hand and an understanding of the dog you are training.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51325 - 05/27/2002 12:33 PM |
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Thank you all so much for the replies!
Just to clarify:
Willow is a very smart girl, and knows all of the basic obed. commands (sit, down, stand, stay, heel, finish and come) very well. It is not an issue of her not understanding what I want.
She learned all of the commands on a flat leather collar, with praise/treats/purely positive motivation. The older she got, the less she wanted to pay attention to me, and the more she wanted to just ignore my commands. This is when I switched to a choke collar.
I have since been using a braided nylon choke collar, placed high up on her neck, and give a very fast 'pop and release' correction.
Lonny B- I sent away for the book, and plan on reading it as soon as it arives
Crabtree- How do I get her to just want to please me??
Caniche- I think that yor dog and my dog must be siblings <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> That is exactly what's been happening to us!
Thax,
Aimee
The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage.
-- Danish Proverb |
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51326 - 05/27/2002 12:56 PM |
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Aimee,
This sounds more like a dog that is bored in it's work. A dog that is looking for something more entertaining than what you are doing in training. I would increase the rewards, and make more rapid changes in direction when healing, and rapid fire changes in positions (sit/down/stand). By making the dog pay better attention I think that you will find that he will start to be more compliant.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51327 - 05/27/2002 12:56 PM |
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Aimee, Just for the record what breed of dog do you have? BTW it's nice to chat with a fellow library employee! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51328 - 05/27/2002 01:22 PM |
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BTW it's nice to chat with a fellow library employee! Ahhhhh attack of the smart people! Hahahah
Aimee: It's a very enlightining book.
Leute mögen Hunde, aber Leute LIEBEN ausgebildete Hunde! |
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51329 - 05/27/2002 01:26 PM |
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dobermann,
Welcome aboard.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51330 - 05/27/2002 01:27 PM |
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Richard; what happens if you cant find a reward worth more to the dog than the distraction? Do you not feel that a dog also needs to know that it MUST comply to the command? Now these questions aside, I personally think a 10 month old puppy is still too young to be asking for perfection in obedience, and I would still be using mostly positive motivation myself but with corrections for lack of attention, and would also not be doing anything off-lead yet so as too limit having the dog being able to make mistakes that I could have prevented.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51331 - 05/27/2002 01:47 PM |
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Aimee, What Richard says about your dog could be bored.....excellent advice. Mine learned every new command VERY fast. 5-10 reps or less. Hand signals too. I should have called him Maxwell Smart. He HATES repitition. One exercise 3X is enough for him. When he knows the command he doesn't enjoy training and retraining for that precision. Everything had to be FUN!!! UPBEAT!!! A new experience!!!. How many times can you sit, stand, stay, etc. Although he is very obedient and did very well in his exercises and in the couple of "pretend trials", the corrections, rigidity and precision of formal obedience were not for him. To say that he did not enjoy it was an understatement. It was partly my fault as well for correcting him inappropriately at times (I was a new learner). He loved agility classes and I also thought about flyball. That kind of repitition he loved. I used to get upset that he didn't want to do things 400X like the goldens and border collies.
Your dog is still young. Try to make it all FUN. Increase the quality of your food treats. Maybe even stop formal training for awhile and enroll her in an agility course. If she's not having fun, stop. Do something else. There'll be plenty of time if you want to trial her in the future.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51332 - 05/27/2002 01:50 PM |
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Some really good points have been made, but I just want to toss in a couple of things. First, I recommend against placing the prong collar high up on the neck, behind the ears, simply because this area is very sensitive to pain. I always place the collar down in the middle of the neck, with the leash clip attached to both rings (have you ever put a prong collar on your own neck? What is the part that causes pain? Not the prongs, but the part where the chain and prongs meet. By clipping the lead to both rings, you eliminate the painful pinch.). If the idea is, as Richard said, not to over power the dog, just get it's attention refocused, then why would you want to use it to cause unneccessary pain? The training collar is a communication tool, a way to break into the dog's train of thought and say "Hey, Earth to Dog! Here I am, now pay attention!". I have found that once my dogs understand what it is I want, all they need is a pop or two on their collar to refocus them. This is not painful, nor is it supposed to be. Now, IF we are in a situation with a lot more stimulation than usual, I will clip the lead to the one ring, so that the collar can tighten when I issue a correction. This is just for extra "insurance", to be absolutely certain that I will have maximum control, should anything happen that is beyond my control.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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