Gotta have the heavy duty collars guys, and you have to make sure your prongs are all in peak shape. If collars get stepped on, tossed around, or whatever people do to them. It only takes a little bit to have them slip.

Ed has a article with photos in the Training Article section, under Protection Training.

I can't get the specific URL from the page to post a link.

I'll have to agree with you Van Camp. I was using the collar correctly but it was c h e a p.
Back then it was very hard to find the great HS equipment I use today. I have never been let down since I did. Its just that when I WAS let down once, the Giant I was training almost murdered a wolf-hybrid and probably would have if given more time!
About the Halti, I was talking about the ones that grab under the arm-pits and pull up when the dog pulls forward. They look so-o cute but use only pain to stop the dog where as a choke or prong uses sound and surprise. That's what I meant by saying things aren't always as humane as they look.
Meanwhile, the halti on the head even when used totally properly is terrible because it gradually inhibits head movement which is VITAL in a protection dog and any dog for that matter.

My dog actually saved my life once by looking over his back on a walk once to see a swerving/speeding cab coming straight for us.
He jerked me so hard I flew onto the side-walk.
I know it sounds like he was saving his own life but he wasn't -the jerk was very well placed, and the dog seemed very calm. You had to be there! With a halti we might both be dead now.

Great story! I don't know how people can live without dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I'd like to add about the halti and gentle leader (as you all, I'm sure, already know) that it as not a training device, as the company claims, but merely a management device. Once the halti (or gentle leader) is off, the behavior returns. Can happen with collars as well, but I have less of a problem leaving a prong collar on a dog for all walks/training sessions than I would a halti or gentle leader. But, that's my personal preference. I would just rather train the dog than manage the problem without solving it.
Just my 2 cents <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I live near the training center where the developed the Halti collar and Gentle Leader... It's a marketing gimick for people who feel bad about correcting their dogs. The gentle leader has a "no bite" setting to keep your dog from biting people and other dogs. They just mask training problems in dogs and cover up undesireable traits.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Officer Matt:
It's a marketing gimick for people who feel bad about correcting their dogs. The gentle leader has a "no bite" setting to keep your dog from biting people and other dogs. They just mask training problems in dogs and cover up undesireable traits.

Have to disagree with you there. And what is the "no bite setting" I have never heard that.

I had a 100 pound GSD rescue who I could not walk on leash, not alone, never mind with my other dogs, as I generally take all of my GSDs out at the same time when we are going to the off leash area. Training is a separate issue, pleasure walks they go together.

With some time and effort, my oversized untrained beast has now graduated to walk on a flat collar like the rest of my crew. May not be the norm, but I don't know alot of folks that can walk 4 GSDs together on flat collars with no issues. The big male was the only one who needed the Gentle Leader for awhile, none of the others did.

I imagine it is like most collars, I suppose people hope to eventually wean the dogs off of prongs and pinches and end up with flat collars once they are trained? It is only a tool, and works for some, not all.

I know I will get flames for this, but that's ok. I am just saying what works for my gang. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

no flames from me...

The halti doesn't have the no bite setting he is referring to, but the "gentle leader" does. It consist of a little lever-type snap that allows you to set how much slack there is in the nose area, which in turn can be set so that the dog can no open its mouth to bite.

So I'm curious as to how that would be different from using a muzzle?

The halti does, however, close the dogs mouth when it is pulled tight, but this is not a no-bite setting. But if I were using it to keep the dog from biting I would prefer the halti (but I guess I don't use either, if I'm worried the dog will bite I'll use a muzzle, I like my fingers where they are, thankyou <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )
Still think it's a gimick. But again, use what works for you, I just don't like it for me.

L, it really isn't, but it is made for people who can't put a muzzle on their sweetums :rolleyes: AND muzzles don't have a ring that hangs below the chin for pulling control either.

There are a lot of variants for what is "cruel" when dealing with dogs and their fruity owners. I had a friend tell me that it was cruel to train a dog to stand for inspection of the teeth once. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the explanation Deanna - never once have I worried about any of my crew biting. I do know you can tighten the portion around the muzzle in a Gentle Leader but have never seen it described as such an "aid". My one monster had it tight around his head and completely loose on the muzzle. Depends on your dog. He is much less likely to bite than I am. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There are training reccs that come with it, if someone would read them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Any thoughts on those with pinches or prongs moving to flat collars?

Oh - for visual, my only pupper who needed a GL: http://www.gsrt.net/July_5_-_Harley.jpg

He is barrel chested but is VERY lean, and has to be.

All nay sayers, please come to my home and walk my 4 GSDs on flat collars - please! LOL