i think there's a difference between compulsion and correction.
i am not big on compulsive training. but if i have a hard headed high drive thick skinned pup that at 5 months old is destructive and causing injuries to me, and i tell him platz and i have taught the platz repeatedly with positive motivation to where he does know the command, and he decides to not platz, but rather to continue scratching/biting/chewing/digging/etc. i will then correct him for ignoring the command.
i am not training the exercise compulsively. i am correcting him for not obeying a command he knows.

Well,I'm working with a well recognized Schutzhund trainer and this is his recommendation. It's like raising a child - everyone has their own opinion.

While I'm at it - I want to say this. I have been somewhat concerned over the Schutzhund potential of this pup because of the comments on this Board that it's a crap bloodline, no nerves, and the rest. So, I AGAIN contacted the trainer at Tom Rose Kennel and asked the question - "since this is a West German Show bloodline, give me your HONEST evaluation of his potential". The response was that he has a great prey drive and very strong potential for Schutzhund. Tom Rose himself said this two weeks ago. They added that they have seen MANY "working" dogs that had no drive.

I know, I know - some are thinking it's because of $$. Well, these people are so busy, I can hardly get in to talk with them - so my training dollars means nothing to the Tom Rose kennel. Also they don't sell dogs, so they have no bias attached to their opinion. Finally, with all the experience of this kennel, I confidently rely on them to help me in the right direction.

I'll guarantee you one thing - if we are fortunate enough to become titled in Schutzhund, I will NOT accept anyone "GIVING my dog a schutzhund title" that apparently happens so much with West German Show bloodlines according to some. If we get it, IT WILL BE EARNED!! If we get it, I will be thrilled even if it's not the BSP.

Further, since I'm on a roll here, I'm one person at least who DOES care about the structure and conformation of the dog to help tell me about his working ability. There's more to competition than harnessed aggression. So, while VA, Schh III, World Sieger and Siegerin in his immediate bloodline means nothing to some, but it sure as @#%& means something to me. Should we compete later in Sieger shows, I will be thrilled if this pup is titled.

I'm encouraged again, and we'll see you at the trials. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I had better stop. From my perspective, as the moderator says, this issue is locked. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Doyle

Now! That's the attitude it takes to become commited to being a K-9 owner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Doyle, I too hope to meet you on the field. keep that positive Attitude, learn all you can. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

doyle, check your PMs

We bought our first puppy 12 years ago knowing that when he reached a certain age training would be important.He went to obedience class wearing a nice new choke chain.But after a few classes the fur around his neck started to wear so the instructor recommended we try a pinch collar.Worked great!He responded better and learned to walk next to me. Few weeks later was talking to a show breeder of gsd at a pet supply store about the pinch collar.Apparently she did not like them because she thought my young cairn would turn over and pee on himself.I still find this quite humorous because in all of his 12 years not one time has he ever displayed this kind of behaviour.

yeah !!!!! doyle, i hope to be among you on the field some day with my import show dog.

What does all this crap have to do with the prong collar. You want to rant about your dog start another thread Doyle.

It is a major pain in the butt to go to a nice training thread that has a good topic and good material in it and see it turn into a bunch of crap. There are too few training threads as it is lately.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So now, back to the topic.

If you are raising a working dog in your home as a pet also, you are just not going to be able to wait for ever to start using corrections in some capacity. You can hold out longer by crate training and using a kennel throughout the day, but you just can't have a nutball pup flying through the house 24/7.

But using compulsion to teach, I totally disagree with. Before using the prong collar, or any aversive, the dog had better know what a command means. If he does, PRONG THE HELL OUTTA THAT DOG! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A crate can be used to solve a lot of problems with dog-dog relations, and pestering puppies.

I keep him in the crate most of the time...or his kennel. I only have him in the house once in a while when I'm there, thats it. I decieded first I wanted a working dog...not a pet.

my dogs work their little behinds off for me. (i think that's why they don't have tails....)
IMO, they deserve some free time in the house to relax and have fun. they do have to earn that, though. and it is always supervised.
but an equally important job for them is to be my companion.
i teach them through positive motivation. when they know the command and choose to not obey, they learn about correction.
if i feel that the correcton may have upset them, i will immediately change the subject and give them a chance to do something right to earn a reward.
the type of correction varies for each dog. for two of them, i can do verbal correction.
one dog considers being ignored to be a correction.
one dog needs a 2x4 over the head. and since i refuse to do that, she remains mildly obnoxious.