oh, by the way,, where are these pictures that Deanna took of Dar, Todd?

Toddo has handled the situation.

All that I will add is that when you get into the bad Czech dogs, and there are bad dogs in any bloodline, you will see the following as their major flaws. Overly defensive behavior, overly sharp behavior, high level of rank behavior, but rarely a low avoidance threshold. This can irk some people. . .especially when a dog lights up on them, or bites their peepee off.

The bad West German dogs that I see can also have these same flaws, but I almost always see a very low avoidance threshold. . .under pressure they break and run.

Just my opinion.

Every group of dogs has it's positive and negative, and not every working line GSD in the world is a good dog. There are some crappy ones. It is just that the Czech crappy ones will usually stand their ground and bite in severe defense, rather than flee a situation. Unfortunately some view this as toughness and you will still see these dogs trained. Most other lines will wash out. So, in some respects there are some nervy, dangerous, Czech dogs. (of course there are plenty of other nervy dogs as well)

Over the last year I saw some real crap Czech dogs, so this is from a little bit of experience.

BUT, overall I find more of what I like in a dog in the Czech lines. Hard, civil, sharp, balanced in drives, and stable working temperament. Like the descriptions of Rocky and Dar that I have read here and on Todd's website. Good examples. . .

I think your going to see these type of people commonly in Schutzhund clubs. I did at the one I was at. They don't like dogs with this behavior because it's harder for them to deal with. I'm no expert but it seems to me that it's much easier to chip away the rough edges on a dog that's aggressive rather than try to make one have something it never will.

I guess it goes back to what you want. From what I've heard from the people on this board if a Dutch Shepherd type of temperament is what you want in your GSD then these lines seem ideal. Now it doesn't mean that just because of the area it causes each type to act much differently but people breed for different things and look for things that match their own agenda. Look at the majority of many American breeders with their American lines. So the type of line doesn't mean a thing necessarily.

Do many different lines of GSDs, Rotts, Belgians whatever, are they influenced somewhat by where they're from if the breeders in that region want a certain type of temparment? Is this how it happens? What are the other opinions here? Generalizations I guess are called for on this subject which can be misleading at times, but it basically comes down to "generally" it's true, right? The word itself is pretty self explanatory.

going back to the initial question though, wouldn't a dog that is more on the edgy side be said to be a little nervy?
when there is a non-threatening situation they should handle with ease and they get all bent outta shape should that not be categorized with the temperment of the dog not being so stable???

Yes, I think your right on that.

bounetteyvette:
I read with interest these threads on temperament because to the novice (such as myself) all the various terms seem to overlap and be rather confusing: sharpness, nerves, stable...etc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

There was an eariler thread that contains a LOT of info on this very subject. Perhaps you might find it as helpful as did I...the biggie I got out of that thread was "Sharpness has nothing to do with nerves"...

http://www.leerburg.com/ubb//ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000007;p=1

Really, your title says it all....

The only way you are going to find out EXACTLY what SHE meant is to discuss it directly with her. None of us can see if she has a clue or is as lost as you... Maybe get her to explain it to you "like you are a 5 yr old"...

 Quote:

when there is a non-threatening situation they should handle with ease and they get all bent outta shape should that not be categorized with the temperment of the dog not being so stable???

This description yes. However, most Czech dogs wouldn't care about someone approaching. Well at least mine. We just sent a puppy home people drove from Tulsa. (Heck they may even read this thread). Anyway, one of the things that kept getting mentioned was how I was able to allow my dogs to run loose with them there. I pulled each of my males out one at a time. Then the females. They were allowed to run free. They came up to the people then went on about there business. Had no care in the world they were there. Strangers on their territory. Looking at their puppies(bitches) nothing. If that is not the picture of STABLE. I need a new camera.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Deanna, I'm not asking a question of what this woman meant when she said what she said.. i'm asking the opinion of the people on the board about this issue. and about her comments, but many others seem to feel the same way.
MY QUESTION was about the hard dog thing and how this hard dog is incorporated into the meaning of stable nerves..

i read those links dogma and they did help me out lots.

can anyone explain why Flinks dog is said to be so hard and why that is such a desired trait for the very experienced handlers? is it because of his rank issues or what?

IMHO, without STABLE, the rest will be a real pain in the ass.