Jeannette Polowski wrote 02/10/2005 12:24 AM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54792 - 02/10/2005 12:24 AM
Jeannette Polowski Webboard User Reg: 03-12-2002 Posts: 732 Loc: Hudson Valley of NY Offline	Simon, I don't think the example that you gave is a good one. A dog sliding on a slick floor and then having an aversion to slick floors due to that experience is , IMO, NOT a dog with good nerves. A dog with good nerves would be unconcerned. They would slide, get up, shake off and keep on going like nothing ever happened. And the next slick floor would not intimidate or concern them, perhaps they would just learn how to scramble alittle better for balance and traction! That would show intelligence and problem solving skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> No one ever said life was supposed to be easy, life is what you make of it!!
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Simon Robson wrote 02/10/2005 07:19 AM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54793 - 02/10/2005 07:19 AM
Simon Robson Webboard User Reg: 08-27-2004 Posts: 53 Loc: Offline	Jeannette...Please understand I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to learn. What is the difference between a dogs falling on a slick floor and deciding that is a bad place to walk and any other kind of correction? Isn't training getting the dog to behave in a proscribed manner by reenforcing certain behaviors with the appropriate stimuli?
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Jeannette Polowski wrote 02/10/2005 12:12 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54794 - 02/10/2005 12:12 PM
Jeannette Polowski Webboard User Reg: 03-12-2002 Posts: 732 Loc: Hudson Valley of NY Offline	I don't see a dog slipping on a floor as being equal to a dog being corrected for an unwanted behavior. Yes, you can then train a dog through conditioning that it is ok to now go ahead and walk on that floor again, BUT, if the dog was that freaked out by it to begin with, IMO the temperment of the dog is very soft and does not have good nerves. No one ever said life was supposed to be easy, life is what you make of it!!
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tara whitlow wrote 02/15/2005 01:11 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54795 - 02/15/2005 01:11 PM
tara whitlow Webboard User Reg: 01-03-2005 Posts: 60 Loc: Offline	I find this topic to be very interesting and I would like to learn more. So a dog that shows a bit of fear of anything, after a bad experience means that it has weak nerves? It would seem natural for an animal, be it dog or human, to wantingly avoid a situation after experiencing something bad and unpleasant... that is the way of nature. Now with good working dogs, with strong nerves, this trait was simply bred out of them? I am just wondering, because avoidance would seem to be a natural reaction to something in past experience showed to be negative...
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tara whitlow wrote 02/15/2005 01:20 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54796 - 02/15/2005 01:20 PM
tara whitlow Webboard User Reg: 01-03-2005 Posts: 60 Loc: Offline	Simon, Just want to clarify that the dog, prior to it slipping, did not have a fear of the floor? Adding on to this discussion... Do strong nerved dogs never learn any fear behaviors? is it something that does not exist with a strong nerved dog? Also, if learned behaviors with strong nerved dogs does occur, can length of recovery time indicate strength of nerves? Is a soft dog and indication of nerves... I thought I saw something where Ed had said he knew someone with a soft dog and it was a great police K9... I think I am getting confused with softness in recovery and weak nerves... someone please clarify.
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John DeKruyff wrote 02/15/2005 02:05 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54797 - 02/15/2005 02:05 PM
John DeKruyff Webboard User Reg: 08-14-2001 Posts: 238 Loc: California Offline	The difference between a hard dog and a soft dog, is that a hard dog can receive a high level correction and act like nothing happened, where as a soft dog can recieve the same high level of correction and he can act like his life just ended. Is a soft dog and indication of nerves A soft dog is NOT an indication of weak nerves, because you can have a soft dog that has good nerves and can do bitework in a building, on slippery floors, and has no fear of loud noises.
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tara whitlow wrote 02/15/2005 02:23 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54798 - 02/15/2005 02:23 PM
tara whitlow Webboard User Reg: 01-03-2005 Posts: 60 Loc: Offline	John, thanks for clearing up the soft dog vs weak nerves issue for me. Do you have any enlightening info regarding learned behavior that I was asking about as well? Is learned behavior an issue or not with dogs? i.e. the dog in discussion, from what I have read, was not scared of slippery floors till it took a nasty spill... Do strong nerved dogs not have the instinct to be somewhat skeptical of something after a bad experience? Is this something that is bred out of strong nerved working dogs?
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John DeKruyff wrote 02/15/2005 03:22 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54799 - 02/15/2005 03:22 PM
John DeKruyff Webboard User Reg: 08-14-2001 Posts: 238 Loc: California Offline	The dog I have now, does bitework on slippery floors, and sometimes he will slip and wipe out into a wall and get up and keep right on going, like nothing happened........this dog has good nerves. the dog in discussion, from what I have read, was not scared of slippery floors till it took a nasty spill... This spill could have uncovered what was always there in this dog. Do strong nerved dogs not have the instinct to be somewhat skeptical of something after a bad experience? Is this something that is bred out of strong nerved working dogs? I guess it depends on the dog and the level of the bad experience. If we're talking about a decoy who puts unpleasant defense on a young dog with good nerves, then the decoy could ruin that young dog because he is not mature enough to handle the stress and that dog will remember that bad experience. If were talking about a dog with good nerves that has a bad experience by wiping out on a slippery floor, then that dog should get up and keep right on going.
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tara whitlow wrote 02/15/2005 05:09 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54800 - 02/15/2005 05:09 PM
tara whitlow Webboard User Reg: 01-03-2005 Posts: 60 Loc: Offline	I understand the nerve issue better now. Thanks. From what I am gathering, a dog with good nerves can have a bad experience that can cause it to show avoidance from a situation, but it is usually from much worse experiences than just slipping on the floor or loud noises. I think Ive got a better grasp now. Does this mean that a dog that shows avoidance to a lower level of negative stimuli will not be able to work around the problem eventually, and can a dog with weaker nerves become a stronger nerved dog with obviously more work or is it always weak nerved?
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tara whitlow wrote 02/15/2005 05:18 PM Re: DDR/weak nerves [Re: Colleen Wipplinger ] #54801 - 02/15/2005 05:18 PM
tara whitlow Webboard User Reg: 01-03-2005 Posts: 60 Loc: Offline	Also, at what maturity level should a dog be able to handle certain levels of stimuli i.e. the decoy pressuring a dog, to being able to travel in all enviroments? Is this breed specific or animal specific, the reason I ask is because not all breeds mature at the same rate. I watched a show on some sort of german police squad and they jump out of planes with dogs... would the average strong nerved dog be able to do this, or is it something many would have to learn to get use to?
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