Tracie, i won't regurgitate the comments I made on another board concerning crossing different line types (ie Frankenstein dogs) but .......

Your dogs are but wee puppies. they won't reach maturity until 2 years old at a minimum.

IOW glad you are enjoying them and have fun, but i would hold off on making any claims about your dogs utnil they grow up.

The only difference is one is workinglines and the other is showlines. Also I believe it is the owner that makes the dog. Tracy, the only difference....it's a *HUGE* difference.
If you want a working dog, then leave the show lines out......and as far as you believing that it is the owner that makes the dog.......well, your forgetting about one tiny element, and that is *GENETICS*

Tracie wrote: "The only difference is one is workinglines and the other is showlines. Also I believe it is the owner that makes the dog. If you are willing to work with your dog and let him/her excell in as much as possible he/she will turn out to be a wonderful dog and you will have just as much fun teaching as he/she will have learning."


If it was the owner that makes the dog, then every good dog trainer in the world would have an excellent dog. But that isn't the case, even very good dog trainers/owners wash out dogs who don't have the working ability necessary for the disciplines they choose to train in.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shat.

Well, as I see, we all have our opinions. As some say, I am throwing myself to the wolves. Well, the wolves can come, because yes, it is the owners and the trainers that make the dog. Give me a puppy that can not be trained is like a baby fish that can not swim. If you have the right temperment, you have a great dog, but any puppy (even a mix) can be a great dog. For the one that sent me an e-mail--Thanks anyway---I am not afraid of a wolf. Everyone has the right to thier opinion and everyone wants to believe thier opinion is right.

No, but you can be happy with what you have. I mean I have a showline german shepherd whose parents and grandparents are all Sch III. When I saw that all the grandparents were VA rated and two of them were multiple World Siegers I thought I was getting the ultimate working dog. Of course after reading this board I realize now what I got was a top german bloodline german shepherd show dog.

Also after reading this board I realize the good
Lord was looking out for me because after reading some of the stories on this board that a top working dog would have been way to much for me. Plus there is no way I would have the time to keep up the protection training.

The dog I have is perfect for me. It is beautiful and has a great temperment. So far it is the best dog I have ever owned, i.e., scary smart and wants to please. Will it protect me in the crunch who knows. All I ask is that it look scary and bark when people come to my door. That should be more than enough to scare off the random bad guy. And if not the barking should wake up the bullmastiff (hopefully) and buy me the 30 seconds I need to get my shotgun.

I truly believe if a bad guy is willing to come through a barking shepherd then it is going to take more than a dog (working or otherwise)to stop them.

In short a dog is not chicken shat because it does not come from working lines it is just not a working dog. Some people like the American line better ( his name is Frank I met him yesterday) some people like the German showline some like the working line. To each his own.

Just my two cents

To me, it all depends on what the owner expects/wants out of their dog. If you handle a Police or Military Work Dog or compete in certain dog sports (schutzhund, KNPV, Ring, etc.) you not only want, but REQUIRE a dog (of any breed) from serious working lines. Therefore, you will (and should) only look for dogs/bloodlines that produce that type of dog.

If you are simply a pet (or even show) owner, the fact is that you simply don't NEED a dog that is HARD and HIGH drive. And the fact is, that if you DID end up with a dog like that, the dog would most likely not last very long in that home. Most regular folks simply can't handle such a dog when all they need or want is a family pet.

While I am a die hard fan of working dog's (seeing as how I'm a K-9 handler/schutzhund competitor), I don't have a problem with MOST breeders that breed for pet or show, SO LONG AS they admit and understand the limitations that their dogs have when it comes to conformation, temperment, hardness and drives as defined in a working environement.

While we can't know for sure without seeing the actual pedigrees from her two dogs, the person who started this thread seems to have an A) German show line female and a, B)DDR working line male. While I'm not sure of her experience level, it would seem to me that she is rather new to schutzhund and working dogs in general, so the dogs may or may not ever be titled and if so, who knows to what level (as we all know, pedigrees are only part of the equation when working a dog. That dog's individual ability is the MOST important factor, and her two dogs are a bit young to see exactly WHAT they bring to the table.)

IF the two dogs are ever bred, who knows what type of dogs they will throw. They may be pet or show quality dogs, they may be ass-eating working dogs, or they may be somewhere in between. That will remain to be seen.

As far as the thing about it being ENTIRELY the owner/handler that makes the dog (which is what leads me to believe the original poster is new to this), you are ENTIRELY incorrect. It is a matter of: 1/3 genetics, 1/3 environment and 1/3 owner/handler. PERIOD.

Thanks Scott, but I still believe alot of it has to do with training. I have had 5 other shepherds, all females, growing up and I did not breed either one of them, so I do not consider myself a backyard breeder. I see no use in breeding my dog for money. My shepherds are my kids, they live in my home, they play in the yard--without a fence and without running off (even if I am inside) and the will spend time with me on the river boating anbd swimming. These two are the first ones I have ever put through training classes or have thought to advance. My others were companion dogs and trained without chokers or leashes (training collars as some refer) and where very obedient. These two I plan on taking into show for agility, herding and Schutzhund. Both of their bloodlines carry the title for SCHH3, so I do plan on showing them. In life I was taught to never judge a book by its cover. So you never know, both of my dogs may be competing in show competitions starting this summer, or by the end of the year. I am working with them both. My female on leash and believe it or not, my male is not on leash and is learning right at her side. I beleve thier high drive and intelligience will take them both far. As for pups, you never know, both have Champion bloodlines and both are Champion sired--but whant is truly champions. To me, even without a title, my dogs would still be champions--my friends, children and my protectors.

When you try to mix and get a little bit of everything you end up with

..........

A WHOLE LOT OF NOTHING

You said you wanted to allow your dog one litter, and that you heard it was good for them. but you had all these other females and breeding wasn't good enough for them? That being said I don't care if you breed them or not, your five puppies aren't going to ruin a breed that is rapidly going down the toilet according to some. Just know that it isn't going to make some phenominal difference in your dog.

You know Jeff, it is not that I did not feel it was not good enough for them, but there were different reasons.
My first shepherd, (excluding when I was a child) was a beautiful white shepherd at six months she had HD and by 8 month it cost me $1800. Not safe for her now is it. At a year it cost me another $1500 and by 1 1/2 I had to have her put to sleep. But for only 18, I think I did right by her. My second shepherd, at 22/23, actually had a broken back leg that me nor the previous owner knew about. Instead of allowing her to give me another pup as she wanted to, I choose to keep the one I had. Three surgeries and at a year old she still had trouble with her leg, pain and arthritis. The Vet said the leg was caused by a calcium difficency. Would you breed her? My third loved me, but went crazy toward everyone else. Noy safe to breed there either--so I didn't think. Pandora was a priss girl and just didn't care for other dogs. My last one before these she was 3/4 wolf and I didn't feel it would be safe for society to have a bunch of wolf pups running the area. So maybe somewhere in my 40 years I do know a little more than you all are giving me credit for. I could have been like some and felt that maybe I just wanted one of her pups. But all in all, I feel that I do know some things.
My female now is from the bloodline of Jello Michelstadter and my male is from the lines of Grafental. Two pretty good bloodlines I think.