Maybe you were luckier with the working GSDs you have had? I have had and seen around here some very soft and sensitive individuals. That is why I decided I needed more Mink <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> The few bulldogs I have seen train were very hard to control and their handlers got used to using very hard corrections. Of course that was a very small statistical sample of them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ehh. . .just goes to show you can't judge a dog based only on the breed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


In my rarely humble opinion, if you have a bunch of working GSDs that are sensitive and soft you don't have a bunch of working GSDs.

I don't like to think I've been lucky. Doesn't say much for the breed if I have been. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp Robert:
I've actually found that the bull breeds are a lot more handler sensitive than working GSDs.

Physical pain resistance can be higher, but handler hard definately not.

Hate to admit it, but I have to agree with VC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Isabel Lambetz wrote:

"Maybe you were luckier with the working GSDs you have had? I have had and seen around here some very soft and sensitive individuals. That is why I decided I needed more Mink. The few bulldogs I have seen train were very hard to control and their handlers got used to using very hard corrections."

Hard to control and the ability to withstand very hard corrections is not an indicator of handler hardness or handler aggression. Could be just bull-headedness (hence the name of the breed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). Dobes are known for handler sensitivity--doesn’t necessarily make them wusses. Let us not confuse handler sensitivity with general softness. "Reasonable" handler sensitivity (or bidability) is actually a desirable trait in any breed.

Another point I would like to make is that Mink lines tend to produce nice females--with fight drive everyone admires so much in these lines minus handler aggression. But then again I am yet to see a truly handler aggressive bitch out of any lines. Also, dogs coming out of Lewis, in my personal observations, tend to be less handler hard than those out of Crok.

Interesting stuff here-Dave and I are getting together to look at the great litters people have
pm'd me with. Thanks to all who contacted me-I will be responding to everyone soon, promise! So many great sounding litters out there-I wish I had the space and time for a third dog right now...
It would, I think, be unethical for me to encourage someone new like Dave to get a dog that has a statisically good chance of being handler-hard or whatever the term is-he'd be out of his league, the dog could get screwed up beyond fixing, no one would be happy. Prey-drive monster sounds about right for him.
This is the most Bastin talk I have seen anywhere, and it is fascinating-all the schutzhund people locally could tell me was "that's Hanrahan's dog!". I follow the threads here on Fero but haven't picked up much on the actual personality traits from that dog. I figured just from being with my guy that Bastin would be a good bet for finding another high prey goofball male. lines are known for being mostly "sleeve dogs"?
Dave's never done formal training with anything-his past bulls never offered to bite a person but were dog aggressive. Strong and playful he wants-but I wouldn't match him with anything "serious" at this time.
I can't say much on bullie handling vs GSD's-I only saw one pit in my brief foray into schutzhund here, and he was rumored to be very civil-all the shepherd people told me not to go near him, that he'd take a bite out of anyone who came near him. So of course, I did chat with the owner afterwards, and he let me pet the dog-it was a big lapbaby-showed me his tummy for belly rubs. I know there's got to be some bullies that challenge their handlers, but I haven't met them, and neither has Dave. I don't want to sour the new convert on his very first GSD!

whoops-I half a half sentence there-I meant,What lines are known for producing "sleeve dogs" or I guess, just pure sport dogs that won't normally do civil work?
Learning bloodlines, folks-sorry if I talk a lot!