I believe that Howards dog was acting out of defense. Howard asked what traits to look for in a personal protection dog.How about this for example, when the dog feels threatened its first reaction is towards the threat and not away.

thank you guys for the replies, that helps me out alot. and from what I have read my dog seems to have a considerable amount of social aggression. Also I guess it is a good thing that she always took the aggression to the percieved threat and not to run away.

Thats pretty cool man.

What instances have you seen where your dog shows social aggression?

Originally posted by VanCamp Robert:
Social aggression, in this framework of definitions, is aggression that is socially driven. The dog has the desire to prove his mastery and dominance over anybody else, dog or man. The motivation behind an aggressive response is not to submitt, or to force another to submitt.

This sums up my dog's behavior in a nutshell. Besides the behavior I mentioned in the previous post she also shows this behavior with my male dog, other dogs, and myself. I like to play rough with my dog, wrestling in the living room or in the backyard and if I get her in a submissive posture then she will get very aggressive. Sometimes she will bite me(not hard), but she will let me know that she will not tolerate this. I also had a friend who tried rough-housing with her and needless to say he did this one time only. He did not know any better and did it while I stepped out of the room. I have also had two different dogs at the house since I have had her and I have seen some hellacious dog fights. She will T-off with the dogs and she will attack them and not let up, even if I try to beat her off of the dogs. She has a real drive to defend herself all of the time and has never really shown avoidance to anything. The helper that I work with has just recently put a little(just a little) defense on her and she took it very well. She is a very social dog and does well in new environments but is very very dominant at times.

Well, I don't know what this 'social' aggression is that you are talking about. But I believe you have an INAPPROPRIATELY aggressive dog that I wouldn't have at my home.

I have also had two different dogs at the house since I have had her and I have seen some hellacious dog fights. She will T-off with the dogs and she will attack them and not let up, even if I try to beat her off of the dogs. and

I also had a friend who tried rough-housing with her and needless to say he did this one time only. It sounds to me like you wanted to have a 'watch' dog to protect you and now you think you do. I personally prefer to have a socialized well behaved dog that I can trust out in public, and to have other dogs in the home. And then IF I wanted the addition of a dog to protect me, THEN I would have started all the training necessary to have a dog that is a well-trained and reliable dog.

Additionally, you made this statement

I am familiar with the steps one needs to take with a young pup to build confidence in the dog and to make the dog more suspicious of strangers which completely confuses me. With all the normal fear stages a pup goes thru it's first year (hey, my pup decided an ATV was 'possessed' last week, no human around!) I would tend NOT to rely on their good sense and knowledge of a mass murderer vs. empty ATV !

Here's some other sites to read up on about dog aggression. You may find them helpful (or be happy with your dog so not need to change anything).

Trained protection vs. 'natural'

Aggression basics

What puppies need

Ivan recommended a good site that specifically mentions 'social' aggression. And after reading this next quote, I'm glad I'm not responsible for a dog like this!

Such dogs do demand a high degree of responsibility and vigilance on the part of the handler. Socially aggressive dogs who are also dominant are difficult to handle and to train and should be in the hands of experts.
Cripes, EXPERTS already! I know raising 3 dogs hasn't gotten me there yet.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Jenn Kavanaugh:
Well, I don't know what this 'social' aggression is that you are talking about. But I believe you have an INAPPROPRIATELY aggressive dog that I wouldn't have at my home.

It sounds to me like you wanted to have a 'watch' dog to protect you and now you think you do. I personally prefer to have a socialized well behaved dog that I can trust out in public, and to have other dogs in the home. And then IF I wanted the addition of a dog to protect me, THEN I would have started all the training necessary to have a dog that is a well-trained and reliable dog.

Additionally, you made this statement

 Quote:

I am familiar with the steps one needs to take with a young pup to build confidence in the dog and to make the dog more suspicious of strangers

which completely confuses me.

First off Jen, i do appreciate you trying to help me out with the sites you posted.

Secondly, I think you are trying to bash me and my dog because you do not understand the nature of my post. I started this post to understand social aggression because I though that the behaviors that my dog has shown were examples of this and the fact that I do not competely understand the result of said behaviors.

Thirdly, you made 100% wrong assumptions with regard to how "social", "inappropriate" and "uncontrollable" my dog is. Also you are wrong about what kind of dog I have and what I "think" I have.

I have never tried to make my dog suspicious of strangers, the only reason I made reference to this is because I thought that social aggression was the result of such training. My dog is completely social with people and children. I can take her anywhere and around anybody and feel completely safe that she will not act negatively. Just because my dog is dominant with OTHER DOGS, and WHILE SHE IS BEING PRESSURED does not make her an unstable dog in my eyes. I am sure that this is common in strong working line dogs. I do think that you are right that dogs like mine need to be with experieced dog trainers I feel the same way. She is a very strong, hard, dominat dog But She is not uncontrollabe, unstable or any of the above things you have mentioned. But she is mine, and I will do everything I can to keep her in the environment she needs to be in and which I think I have so far. I feel thatI have done somethin right considering that I just got her "B" on her with flying colors and am persuing her 1. I appreciate everone elses "HELP". More is welcome.

Ivan, I personally don't like the term social aggression, so I don't use it anymore.


Jenn, I don't really find that your comments to this threat were helpful, correct, or relevent. . .sorry.


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Thank you Vancamp,

I totally agree with you. Thanks for the help.

Howard Scott posted the following

I like to play rough with my dog, wrestling in the living room or in the backyard and if I get her in a submissive posture then she will get very aggressive. Sometimes she will bite me(not hard), but she will let me know that she will not tolerate this. I also had a friend who tried rough-housing with her and needless to say he did this one time only. He did not know any better and did it while I stepped out of the room. I have also had two different dogs at the house since I have had her and I have seen some hellacious dog fights. She will T-off with the dogs and she will attack them and not let up, even if I try to beat her off of the dogs. Sorry I didn't read this was a well-behaved socialized dog that can be trusted with normal human behaviors (play) and other dogs (in your home).

Guess I just read your posting wrong. Glad that VanCamp Robert agreed with your call on events and could help you more.

And thanks for bringing up the topic cause I'd never heard of this 'Social Aggression' but while educating myself on it to post the websites for you, now I learned alot.