Laura, if that response came off bad...I am sorry wasn't my intentions. (At least not this time... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

The program I am using won't go back any further than 10 generations. I d/l a program called Compuped...it is in the beta testing and well...needs more testing. I think that might be able to go further. For my purposes, I think 10 generations is far enough. We have data from over 1000 dogs at that point.

I have been doing a lot of reading on the coefficients lately. I tell you, if you are having a tough time sleeping...that will do it. In my case, I really need more info on the Czech dogs to get an accurate inbreeding coefficient. I just thought the Rocky/Mara example was pretty neat. You see alot of litters advertised with linebreedings and w/o. I think it would be interesting to see what they actually were. I might do that tonight with my new Bastin pup.

OK, I didn't realize you were talking about Coefficient of Inbreeding (COI).

COI tells you little about the genetic contribution of dog to your dog's genetics. COI tells you the probability that a dog's genes will be homozygous by descent. One can look at the COI contribution from the individual dogs found in your dog's pedigree, but that doesn't tell you anything about how many genes your dog got from those dogs. Let me illustrate with examples.

My husband's GSD Lodi was sired by a dog who was linebred 3-2 on Fero. But Lodi's dam had no Fero. Because of this, Lodi has no linebreeding on Fero. In other words, Lodi's COI contribution from Fero is ZERO. This is despite the fact that Lodi's percentage of blood from Fero is 18.75% (once in gen 4 = 6.25% plus once in gen 3 = 12.5%). So Lodi got a lot of genes from Fero, but he is not homozygous in any genes through Fero.

Lets look at another dog in Lodi's pedigree, Bernd v Lierberg. Bernd appears a total of 15 times in Lodi's pedigree, in generations 6-10. Lodi's percentage of blood (statistical genetic contribution) from Bernd is 6.445%... about 1/3 of what he got through Fero. But because Bernd appears on both the top and bottom of Lodi's pedigree, Bernd does contribute (slightly) to Lodi's COI while Fero does not. Lodi's 10 gen COI through Bernd is 0.20%, while his overall 10 gen COI (from all dogs) is 2.13%.

Incidentally, if you look at working line GSD pedigrees, you'll generally find low 10 generation COIs (1-6%) not unlike what Lodi has. German show line GSDs generally have higher COIs than this, while American showline dogs can have extremely high COIs.

Laura

See this is why I started this discussion.

So what does this mean for the referenced litter?

Todd,

I really like the WinCanis Pedigree and Visible COI software that Jim Seltzer developed, which can be downloaded on the web. I imported GSD pedigree files that Yvonne Hecht provided me into them. The WinCanis Pedigree software can do COI calcs for every dog in a pedigree out to 30 generations, and with the Visible COI program you can view the inbreeding on a pedigree tree by color codes. And the price is right... both programs are free.

The canine geneticist Professor John Armstrong said that among the various canine pedigree programs available, he liked Jim Seltzer's products the best for doing COI calculations.

Laura

in the process of d/ling. The files you imported, did Yvonne have to make the special or can I use my WinSis DB files?

AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! I am not computer literate. Ok, I have the WinCanis and the Visual COI programs...where do I get the data?

Please tell me I don't have to enter it all in..(cuz that'll never happen)

Too complicated for me...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Todd,

You don't have to enter all the dogs again. The dB can be imported. Check your PMs.

Laura

I have a question along this line of thought:

if you take a line breeding (for the sake of simplicity, a full brother X sister pairing) that has 12.5% each of DogX.. the new litter will have 12.5% of the same dog, only the new litter will have homozygous genes, correct?

given this scenario, how much more "prepotent" will this litter be?

tia