Point understood Richard. I just wanted Jerry to explain his two contradictory statements. Numbers are not what makes a good breeding program......yes, you need a "number" of good dogs to select from to use for breeding but think about it for a minute. I feel it's a double edged sword, in order to have numbers from which to choose you need to breed the crap out of the dogs available. Not always the right choice, IMO.

And as for making road trips to breed, I drove over 3000 miles in August to breed my dobermann female. Nobody said it was easy!!! Add the fact that I had a hormonal Dobermann, a 9 year old boy and my 10 month old Malinois (also in season) in my van and you get the idea!!

I could have bred to a dozen other dogs within a 300 mile radius but that is not the point. Unfortunately for me and all the people waiting for pups--the breeding did not take. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If I was just in it for numbers or profit I certainly would have chosen a different course.

ok, off topic, but I WISH Ed had installed a dashboard cam for that trip.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Numbers are exactly the point Cindy. Only a total novice believes that even in a great breeding does all the pups work out.

Culling those that are not working quality out limits the chance of those with great intentions but no knowledge from continuing poor breeding practices that further add to the additional bad numbers instead of the lower numbers of good dogs to use.

What do you think was a contradiction?

JC

Ummmm........maybe the fact that you said numbers are the solution and then said mass production of the dogs would doom them as working dogs???....sounds contradictory to me.

Maybe you meant numbers of GOOD SOUND working dogs are needed and mass production of marginal dogs would ruin the breeds as working dogs?? Since this is an internet discussion board I have to take things as typed and that's why if I don't understand I question them.

Who ever said anything about all pups from a breeding turning out?? No one on this thread that I can find.

I think most breeders seem to forget that all the pups in a litter have the same genetics behind them. They get one good one and 7 mediocre ones. If you cull the mediocre dogs and breed the one good one---HELLO......still breeding mediocrity into the breed whether it's Doberman or Toy Poodle. (just to stay on topic)

I don't know about anyone else but I look for stability and uniformity in dogs from a certain bloodline. Not 2 or 3 superstars out of scores of dogs. I look at the character of the dog and not the training which I think is where the average breeder (maybe you might call them novices) misses the boat. What I like may not be what you like but that's what makes life interesting, dontcha think? :rolleyes:

I'll check in with you guys later, gotta go train my Porsche, my MR2 and my ATV (the Mal-can't find anything she can't get over, around or thru) LOL
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cindy, my Mals are Hummers.

LOL

Now would that be the Desert Storm, pre-Schwarzeneger(Arnold) hummers -or- todays designed for Yuppies, more on road less off road H2 hummers? LOL

Jerry - I assume that when you mention you support culling in your earlier post you simply mean selling pups without breeding rights and not actually kiling the pups.

I do not know anyone that puts pups down because they think the dogs do not have working ability. To do so verges on irresponsibility.

Ed, Yes and No. I will put down an obvious not correct pup. Example being a serious physical or temperament flaw. I also keep my pups a lot longer than any breederes I know as I breed for myself and the end result of a working adult.

The dogs that simply do not end up with the correct abilities to work and that covers a wide range from PSD street and all the detection fields and Sar, then I will sell them unable to be used for breeding included in the cost of the pet sale.

I do not sell females as pups ever until I can determine if they will become breeders. These breeders are mine. If a female Is Not for my breeding program then spayed and sold.

I end up with a few extra to feed but again I breed for my own purpose first.

By the way check your e-mails. I sent one to you this morning.



jerry

I am totally new to this world of working dogs. I don't train or know a lot about it. I just got my first dobie (strictly as a pet companion and guardian of the house). I was under the impression that the dobie is being used less for working purposes and is being bred more as a family companion and guardian of the home? They are extremely loyal and bond tightly their master. The breeder I got my dog from has 4 dobies. All of them are very sweet, friendly and laid back but they will protect her house. They are accepting of strangers when their master is accecpting of them. She breeds for a sweet sound disposition, conformation and health. Is there something wrong with this kind of dog?

Pauline