Due to the fact that GSD are suppossed to be an all weather wroking dogs you would think that the long coat might be detrimental due to the tendency of long coats to attract burdocks, brambles etc and the tendency for longer coated dogs to have more foot hair which tends to snowball etc. I think that a med length double coat gives the best protection from elements.

Yeah, exactly. Weather and environment.

Ok, I'll give you the breed standard deal.
But the fact that it has long hair doesn't keep it from working out in the cold.
If death was on the horizon for the long coat it would be the same or minutes later with the regular one.

Why do people have to come up with necessary ways to justify stuff?
1. It's breed standard with a regular coat, fine.
2. Will a dog in the cold with long hair passout sooner, no. And if it did you worked your regular coat dog too long also by then.
3. The issue on it being necessary to work in the cold is irrelevent.
4. I don't need to have worked 100 dogs to find out that fact.
5. A dog with a long coat could work just as good in the cold, put a jacket on him if you had to.
6. Long Story short, it's not breed standard and that's it.
5. This is just like the tail and ear thing for me, I don't have to justify why I like on a Dobermann to do that to myself. It's fashion, but I just do it.
6. With all the show dogs out there, BS working GSDs, bad hip dogs, this is very trival.

What about picking up all kinds of burrs and who knows what else in the field doing SAR, police tracking, herding. . . ?

That wouldn't affect working ability?

And hair between the toes would affect the ability to run for extended times in snow and ice.

There is nothing BS about it.

Do you have any idea how much better long coats hide ticks? That's enough reason for me right there. The last thing I want is a dog with a tick borne illness. Wetting the dog down to be able to find ticks easier, then bathing and blow drying isn't the best way to spend an afternoon either. The long hair is also more likely to mat IMO.

You all know I am a working finatic....but lets be serious.....you have to stick with the standards that Max meant the breed to have to do the job. If you want to start a different breed then do it....but it wont be a true GSD in the eyes of it's creator. It's a fault, period....for many reasons....so don't breed it.
Pat

Everyone has made good points, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I understand if the dog didn’t even resemble a GSD, that’s different.

I don’t feel the GSD is where it should be in the working dog world, as it was 30 years ago. It doesn’t need good ones left out.

I think it’s things like this that keep increasing the Malinois and Dutch Shepherd population.

Now if there’s cloning in the future then great then I totally agree.

Agree or disagree, standards are in place to assure the GSD remains a GSD.

Brad, have you ever owned a long haired dog? They are a lot of work to keep clean and tangle free. Not exactly what I want in a dog that is here to guard my FARM.

For example, look at the Giant Schnauzer. Someone decided they liked dogs with soft coats and started breeding them, judges started placing them over dogs with correct coats and now it is MUCH harder to find a Giant with the correct coat in the US. Not saying the soft coats don't exist in other areas, but it is an example of deviation from the standard. Being that most judges don't know the standard, they just place what is looking like the other cookie cutters it takes a long time to reverse the effects. Now looks have no bearing on working ability, but I don't think we are in the state of dispair with the breed that you seem to think we are. There are enough GOOD normal coated GSD's out there, why breed a fault into the line? So what if he won the WUSV, there were other dogs there with normal coats that were probably just as good, but lost points due to something else...

And the long hair DOES make a difference in wet/cold weather, more than a fraction of a difference, they have NO undercoat. The undercoat is the part of the coat that holds the air and keeps the heat in... without that they have no insulation. Add to that when a coat becomes matted it loses its ability to keep a dog warm and you have a problem. I know you are in Texas, so snow isn't a problem, but here snow is abundant and dogs with long hair snowball really quick. A jacket will help the body, but they will freeze their feet and legs. Not to mention, a gsd with a coat on looks STUPID <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

:rolleyes: YES I have owned or lived with long haired dogs.
2 Schnauzers, a Collie, Hunting Spaniels, Poddle etc. other breeds, etc.
Just because I don't have a dog fetish doesn't mean I've never been around more than one or two.

As far as looking stupid, that's subjective.

There's more GSDs with the physical -standards- bred every year than ones with the correct mental and drive characteristics.
I'd feel the same way if there was a GSD that was a little too big or small for the standard. If it's marginal it's marginal.

lol, these threads are addicting.
1. If there was a once in a decade type female out there I'd hate to let her pass on the contribution. That's all I'm saying.

No it's not breed standard, and there's many good reasons not to have a long haired dog.