After a dog learns to associate the equipment with the good things that will happen as a result of the use of the equipment and often get VERY excited when it comes out. That may occasionly look like resistance, in fact it is really more of an effort by the dog to go and do something it enjoys.

One other thing. With any correction device you are better off not just putting it on and going to town. Train with the device on for a while and, and don't use it. After the dog begins to associate the device as part of a good thing, training, then you can introduce the corrections.

Most dogs don't like having things sliped over their heads. This ends up being an advantage for the use of collars that can be put on without slipping them over the head.

I am going to stir the pot in some circles by saying this is just small lesson to those who expect a high degree of obedience by molding a behavior with positive reinforcement to a point of a fully condition performance and then discover you want a more clean movement or a few “bugs ” worked out in reliability.

Many people practice and train under the philosophy that exclusive use of positive operant methods is the best way to teach a dog. Proponents of this ideology will cite the absolute necessity to mold an expected behavior first then fix problems with compulsion if necessary later. Many pet people have lower expectation of good obedience so many trainers can ‘get way by’ with an 8 week session of click and clap training because the methods used by positive only training does produce a result in performance.

This gives the impression of sound obedience because the dog responds to a command and does it for his reward. The problem is while any dog can very easily understand his movement = reward, he or she often does not understand the difference of doing it for the reward or doing it because it was told to.

I have mentioned in the past as a responsible dog owner you must have control over your dog and its behavior. Your influence as an owner must be seated in an actual and natural leadership dog’s respect. This does not mean harsh punishments and super domination techniques. I consider good trainers not punishers but they are willful and tenacious.

Having come to the conclusion that dogs conditioned without trainer RESOLVE leads to greater conflict in the end. Feeling confident about this conclusion, I have come to understand most handler aggressive problems (aside from pain induced aggression) comes from a dog feeling he is being unjustly dominated or he is being unfairly punished and has not learned fully he is not in charge. This feeling is the result of not establishing fair leadership in a balanced way using rewards along with some leash work in the form of corrections.

Remember how you train a dog is how they tend to be. Having a clear understanding of your future expectations and adjusting your training program to meet this standard will be the best advice for owners with untrained dogs.

I recommend not to teach anything until your dog has a clear understanding that rewards are and "good dog" means something it likes and wants again. When a dog knows about the benifits of doing a command it needs to them learn the only option it has is to do the command that lead to it.

Those that think the majority of trainers can accomplish superb performance by reward conditioning alone but I disagree with this premise. I say this because reward values in different environments fluctuate in the dog’s mind and the dog’s actual mood or desire fluctuates like any other sentient being.

You shouldn’t teach a SIT before your dog knows he MUST follow you on the leash and knows he MUST pay attention to your directives. Don’t teach a DOWN before your dog knows to sit when told to each and every time and you have achieved and you have fooled trough with rewarding performance after the dog knows his obligation to comply to your command and so on.

If your dog doesn’t like to have a collar placed on his head then have the will to get him use to it and not associate it as a bad thing. A "collar smart" dog will be a bane to your off leash training goals so fix this problem now with a plan.

This plan is simple do nothing more in training until you have achieved this one goal then move on to the next. Break down your training, no matter what you are trying to train, into the smallest increments for the best chances achieving your training goals.

Once again understand what your future expectations are and good luck.

Robert,
I posted my reply as the original poster had said they were using positive motivation for training. I *assumed* after the bloodletting while trying to place on a collar, that the handler was ready to add a stronger correction to save their hands. I guess I just added my opinion/rant regarding pure motivational training while I was on autopilot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You will have to forgive me, I wasn't quite sure how to reply to everyone at once so I posted a new message and someone told me how to do right. Sorry. The answer to the question about the collar was choke collar. Since my post I have decided to forego the choke and go right into the prong collar. He accepted it with no problem. As far as everyones reply I appreciate your taking the time to answer. However, I do want to point out that I am not a "motivational" only person. I just did not see any point in using anything but a flat collar on a puppy who responded with praise only. I never used food. My voice letting him know that I was pleased was enough for his early training. But that changed as he grew. I would assume if I was asking a question about a collar, common sense would indicate that I was not using motivational training as my only source, otherwise I wouldn't be using a choke or prong collar. Every puppy is different, I don't believe there is anything wrong with starting off with motivation on a pup that is only 10 weeks old to see what your going to get, but I understand peoples opinions differ. My chow mix was very easy to train, a light correction on a choke chain was the most he ever needed. He went on to get his CGC and become a helping hands dog, and brought much joy to many children over the years until he passed away at 14 without the use of a prong collar. So I don't necessarily agree with the opinion that motivational trained dogs suck..I think the only dogs that suck are dogs that have no training...Again, thanks for everyones input. DAR

there are a few wierd things here. Most people lean over the dog to put on a chock collar. You can put on a flat collar without so much posturing over the dog. And the dog didnt growl at all just bit a lot. Mostly dogs will growl to give a warning. This little guy gives no warning just bites. I would really like to see this guy in action. I think you would have to get eyes on and more background. Its just sounds odd for a 5 mth old puppy.

Was this the first time you tried a chock on him.

No, I have never tried to put on a choke chain before. His flat collar comes on and off and has done so since I have had him (I take it off to put him in his crate). I was standing in front of him and thought I would just slide it, then I grew a brain (haha) and got behind him. He just did not want that chain on his neck. His bites arn't pressure bites, they are "your not putting that on me" bites. He showed no signs of aggression at all. He just decided that perhaps if he mouthed me enough I would give up and I didn't. He tryed the duck and weave, the bite and weave, anything not to have the chain on his neck. The strange thing is I put the prong collar on him the same I would his flat collar and he could care less. Perhaps it had something to do with placing it over his face? I was puzzled. Puzzled enough to post a note. However, the replies leaned more too the disadvantages of motiv. training instead of my question. Got any ideas of what the problem could have been?

Dar listen to Doc Cannon.

Hesus Hasley, what the frig are you talking about?

He just wants to get a collar on, he never said anything about motivational only training. . .in fact he said he was going to start corrections now.

Lets keep it on topic.

If you want to start a thread on motivational only training and your dopey heel then sit then down thing go ahead. I'll meet you there.

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