Richard you are so sweet. I don`t know much about Sch but I have met these two dogs, incredible prey drive, too much for me as they would drive me bonkers, want to go go go all the time, and Jack is working in PNG as a drug- bomb-firearm detector dog at the moment. Both getting on in years but plenty of semen in storage. One of their females is bred on Drolls lines as well. I believe the military, air force and army, are happy with the pups from these dogs and some are with our forces overseas.
Dot

James,

I guess the question and answer came off wrong. I have been corresponding with Dot off and on for years, both her husband and her have been long into serious working dogs. Her hubby makes a living with security dogs in Aus an PNG. So in short, they know their dogs for work.

I didn't take the question as a challange to Dot, nor was I trying to respond like it was a challange. My point was that you could skip credentialing and move on to the dogs themselves or communicating with Dot to find out more about the dogs.

Dot likes the same big black dogs I do. I am trying to figure out how it could be made worth while to get one out of Oz.

No offense taken guys.
Well Richard, you could email me privately and we can discuss the pros and cons of getting a big black dog over there. VBG
Dot

James, my friend wanted a bitch for personal protection.This it what he's got.This line has been consistently doing this for close to 20yrs in Australia.Very Serious Dogs.Most of Regalhaus's dogs have proven strong both social & active aggression.As previously discussed in Collin vh Ming x Yosy vd Wannaer Hohen(Regalhaus mating)these type of dogs are not best utilized by novice handlers. http://www. vonforell.com follow stored semem to Security Pekahia No such thing as 100% with dogs or life.That's my 2 cents worth Regards JD

Dot, Richard and John,

Must say that this really opens my eye quite a bit as I was always of the opinion that OZ are only having Show kittens <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I must say that I'm very happy to note that working GSD are in existent in OZ and will definately improve the gene pool.

Vonforell is indeed interesting and this should give me an idea to start my search from.

Yup Robert, know about the BSP.....hehe! you ain't true working fella if you ain't knows BSP's.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> couldn't resist that...sorry.

Dot, Will contact you for some discussion. I have lots of questions and hope you don't get over bored with them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I guess there are a number of issues here that need to be commented on. Firstly Regal Haus. Ive only met Steve once and that was at the Bernhard Flinks seminar. He doesn't have a bad reputation from anyone here in Oz and believe me if he had done people wrong I would have heard <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> News travels fast here. He is putting alot of time money and effort into bringing some good dogs into Australia. For that he deserves some respect. That said the next issue is the questions on registrations. Importing dogs into Australia is a very expensive and time consumming process. I imported two pups from the US and Czech. They were both 8 week old pups when I bought them. After all the quarentine requirements and blood tests etc, I did not get them into Australia untill they were 11 months old. 12 months by the time I got them out of quarentine. The cost to me at the time was $12,000 AUD per pup. (approx 7,000 US). There are VERY FEW people who are willing to put their hands into their pockets in this country and import dogs, but are very willing to only pay $1500 AUD ($800 US) for a pup to then breed on with them. This is the main reason that the people who import the dogs only offer limited registration pedigrees with the pups. It also limits the amount of possible puppy farmers that may crop up. If someone is willing to pay proper money for a pup that represents the cost to import them I think they would have better access to papers. I have sold dogs to the airforce here as well and I gave them full registration as the dogs are being bred and used for service work. The "Security" GSD lines here in Australia are refered to as the Old Victorian Lines. They are a blend of some old DDR dogs, West German working lines as well as WG show lines and Ausralian lines. Not my cup of tea but there were some serious dogs from those lines. Big dogs that were mostly black or bi-colour.
DROLL VOM STEINERNEN TISCH is a show dog, not a working dog. Jack is working lines but not BSP that i'm aware of. I wouldn't be looking for a working dog from Droll.

There are also alot of excellent working GSD in this country. There are some awesome Czech dogs here, some old pure DDR lines as well as some excellent WG working lines. Bernhard Flinks was very surprised at the quality, and he only saw some of them. If your quick you could even get some kick ass dobermanns before the docking bans come around. Flinks saw some of our working dobes and was very impressed. His comment was that you cannot get this calibar working dobermann in Germany. All up things are looking good here for working GSD's.

Chris,

Its about time you came in. I knew you definately have good info when Robert mentioned you. Loved what I see from your site. Now that's what I call service to working GSD and putting them in the proper right respect. I will e-mail you seperately so that we can discuss more. Thanks

Hi Chris,
Like I said I don`t know much about Sch but when your life can depend on your dog you soon get to know a DOG from a dog. Our situation was a little bit different to the majority of other people working with their dogs, our dogs could mean the difference between seeing the next day or not. I have been in a couple of situations where my dogs meant the difference between a bit of not so friendly discussion and who knows what, and Ross is certainly still in one piece thanks to a couple of serious canine partners. A machette coming down towards your head is a little hard to duck without help and it pays to have your back covered during a riot.
I have been told that Jack is worth his weight in gold doing the job he is doing at the moment and I have seen Droll, in training, take out an armed man.
I don`t know all the in`s and out`s of it except that both these dogs were imported into Oz as fully grown adults with all their working credentials and paperwork, at a cost I would hate to even contemplate, specificaly to breed a line of realiable working security dogs for use in PNG as at the time a good dog was as rare as hens teeth here.
I know from nothing about this working line or that working line or if there are show lines as well in a particular dogs breeding but from experience I can say that these are a couple of serious working dogs and from what I have seen of some of their grown pups they know their business.
I personally always had Rotties as my own dogs and usually females or as Ross called them "those damn bitches" especially the one who would climb an 8ft fence to get to the action. Now you can not get me away from my big black hairy monsters, if I go to join Ross in PNG next year they will go with me and I would trust my life to them as well although they would need some 'this is serious' as opposed to 'this is fun' work when we get there.
I aggree that getting a pup from strong proven working lines definatly has to be a plus but I also think that most temperamently sound, well socialisied, correctly raised and trained pups can make good working dogs as well.
In the end it all comes down to the owner/trainer to make or break a good dog, no matter what the breed or breeding, or how much potential a pup has, a bad or inexperienced owner/trainer who thinks they know it all and goes by the book instead of assessing the individul dog and it`s needs at any particular time does a lot more harm than good. Not every pup is ready to go on the arm at x age, not every pup is ready to chase a man down at x age and I have seen some dogs that were sold to the company as usless or dangerous turn into great working dogs with a lot of work and retraining and also some who were too traumatised by their previous 'training' to ever be any good for real work.
You learn a lot when the situation is real and now and dangerous and you certainly learn to tell a WORKING DOG from a working dog. A good dog who has it all from an unknown background is of more use in a real situation than a so so dog from the top working lines if it just dosn`t make the grade.
So I guess it all boils down to pick the best pup you can, do the right thing by him and he will do the right thing by you.
Dot

James,Try Mr Jens Kollenberg in Queensland.He's Australia's most experienced & qualified schutzhund man.Has a litter planned just mated 2 weeks ago.Fax v Grenzganger Sch111(12 place 2000 BSP) x Gracie v Talka Marda Schh111(out of Quaste v Ankenrutt 2 place 2002 BSP ?)FULL Registration Paperwork without the excuses $1500.Interesting he can price this way out of World class schutzund dogs not imported pups(That remain untitled).Maybe Jens is not trying to gain his money back in one litter.Most working people in Australia have at one stage been ripped-off by a breeder re paperwork.If breeders told people that there was NO paperwork or Restrictions placed on papers this would be ok BUT this is not the case most of the time.My show friends laugh at this.Get every detail in writing BEFORE you part with your money. Regards JD