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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63871 - 10/06/2003 05:42 PM |
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I disagree. The clip was used in the context of comparing training methods; correction based vs. reward based. I don't think that defamation of character is applicable here either. Ed would have to demonstrate that Stossel knowingly told lies about him in order to hurt his name or reputation. Does Ed administer leash corrections in dog training? Yes. Not a lie. No defamation.
I'd be curious to know what Ed's attorney thinks.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63872 - 10/06/2003 05:50 PM |
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Ed, I don't blame you for being upset, go get them!
Here is a link for further understanding:
Fair Use
Maggie |
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63873 - 10/06/2003 06:38 PM |
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I based my comments off of prior posts on the topic. I did not see the 20/20 segment. If the clip was used to demonstrate only a form of correction, then no defaming occured, however, if it was used as an example of "what not to do", with clear emphasis on "this is what should not be done" then I would assert the possibility of a defamation claim, however weak it might be. It must be clear that it was only used to demonstrate a type of correction, anything more be it spoken or implied presents a problem, and a cause of action for Ed.
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63874 - 10/06/2003 06:53 PM |
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Ed doesn't have a right to be angry, or to take action if he feels he has been wronged. I always encourage folks to exercise their rights. Rights are pointless if not exercised.
All I'm saying is, does 20/20 have the right to use copyrighted material without permission? Yes, if they followed Fair Use guidelines. As far as I can see, they did.
Now, if by chance, Ed can demonstrate that sales of the video dropped as a direct result of that report, then I'd say he has cause for action.
Defamation is sketchy here. I think the implication was that correction based methods are antiquated and that positive reinforcement is more humane. However, this was an opinion, not a statement of fact made by Stossel.
Again, I'm not an attorney, this is just my understanding based upon what I do know of copyright law.
If you are interested, you can go to the 20/20 page at the ABC News website, and read a transcript of the report. It's titled "Oscar the Grouch".
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63875 - 10/06/2003 07:00 PM |
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I agree with you, that the bottom line is Ed has a right to pursue legal action if he is so inclined. Whether or not there are grounds, well, I suppose I'll have to read the full transcript and get back to you..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63876 - 10/06/2003 07:02 PM |
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63877 - 10/06/2003 07:04 PM |
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20/20 is a news program. It was not for commercial use.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63878 - 10/06/2003 07:17 PM |
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Although a news program, do they not sell time to advertisers for monetary gain?
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63879 - 10/06/2003 08:20 PM |
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http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/Living/2020_stosselpuppy031003-1.html
For anyone who desires to read it...
$300 for a six week OB class... I wonder what the 'dog whisperer' cost him?
Not to mention, I doubt the dog whisperer was all nicey nicey. "horse whisperers" can be some of the most gruesome trainers there are. Then again, 90% of the time they are a last resort aside from a meat truck headed to Canada...
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Re: Leerburg Video on 20/20
[Re: Larry Petty ]
#63880 - 10/06/2003 08:28 PM |
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Well, I saw the clip as it was being televised ( and I Emailed Ed that night with a heads up about the news story ) - and I slipped in the Basic Dog obd. tape into my VHS and replayed it immediately afterwards to see at what part of the tape the clip was taken from. I think a resonable person would see that the clip was shown out of context in the way Ed presented the correction, ie,without Ed's explanation via voice over, and *especially* with a different trainer stating that the method shown was incorrect.
I note that the trainers that Stoffel used were given website links on the 20/20 site - seems to me that their business would benefit by the publicity, no? The news show acted as defacto advertising for the trainers that Stoffel choose to highlight, and the trainers *did* defame other trainers by saying their training methods were incorrect.
The web links to the 2 trainers sites both offer classes , book sales , and such. That was a crap load of free advertising for those 2 trainers.
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