Unless you have a dedicated breeding program where you are testing your stock's working ability in every single generation with a measurable and proven working test, you don't have a "working bloodline".

And even then, in the best working bloodline there is still a low % of really capable animals. I hate to think of the % of really capable animals from anything other than a "working bloodline". (as I define it above)


So my question is, what catagory does the APBT fall into? Can anyone honestly say there is a dedicated working bloodline of APBTs? I know there are titled APBTs. I know there are a few breeders here and there who are breeding for the work. I know there are breeders breeding APBTs for "other" types of work that have some cross over characteristics. ("Other" meaning not traditional protection and/or service work) But is there a measurable (in size) working bloodline of APBTs that are being selected for the specific traits necessary for the traditional working disciplines?


There are a lot of nice dogs from a lot of different breeds, but in my opinion a few nice dogs does not a working breed make.

Let's see. Out of 8 Apbt's in our club (not including the 5 exceptional ones in another club in the area) 7 are exceptional workers and the other one has made a drastic improvement in this last month. I would say the ratio for this "non traditional working breed" is much more higher then the ratio of other breeds that ARE traditional working breeds I see out there. Coincidence?? Not trying to put down any other breeds, there are many great working dogs out there.

Come on over VanCamp. You are more then welcomed to come check it out.

The question now, based on John's comments........
How will/would the public view an increase of APBTs as working dogs? It seems to me that the breed's repuation in general among the uneducated (which is unfortunately high in numbers)is near irrepairable. Fact is, the general public see the dogs as dangerous, based on the bad press we have talked about. Can that be over come? If so, how? I personally would love to see more APBTs as working dogs, in the proper environment according to the ability of the individual dog, but is that realistic given the fall of the reputation? Is there too much damage to repair? I would argue that the majority of public opinion on the matter would be to not want to see the dogs in a professional setting (becasue they are scared)......sad but true? Is that a hurdle too high to clear? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Originally posted by Drew Corry:

How will/would the public view an increase of APBTs as working dogs? I think it would cure their ignorance.

Chris Valdes, I'm sure you do have some nice APBTs.

But, the comparison you make with dogs in your club isn't a reasonable one.


I think John answered my question. And maybe like he said, the number will grow in the coming years.


To comment on the public opinion issue. . .when drug dealers, rednecks, gangstas, and CRIMINALS stop breeding, fighting, and owning (read as abusing) APBTs then public opinion might get better. Till that happens I don't think it will.

Ditto with VC on the public opinion. The APBT is an awesome breed. However, the majority of them in my "hood" are owned by SH!+BUMS. My own brothers pit is one we "confiscated" from one of my SH!+BUM neighbors. She was fought once but still turned out to be a great little dog. My daughters rescue Pitt is fantastic and learns as quick as most dogs I've seen.

As far as protection work. Niether my brother's nor my daughters show any desire to protect anybody from anything.....well......maybe another dog. They'er both people soft.

What I have seen with Pits is that they don't seem to have much of a NATURAL protection instinct. They do have the cahacteristics to do good work (courage, tenacity, trainability), but they have to be taught what the work is. If it is started as a game, and that moves to the more aggressive "protecting" they do fine.

One thing I have noticed in the "off" breeds, is that there tends to be a higher percentage of workable candidates than is seen in the general population of the more popular working breeds. So although the dogs aren't bred for specific work, it also isn't intentionaly bred out of them either. They also haven't been bred toward a specific purpose, so they also tend to not have "unbalanced" drives. They have tendancies based on how they were developed, but there is a better balance than is seen in other "working" populations. It makes it possible to take many indiviuals out of a breed and be able to do credible training with them. Turn all of them in to top sport competitors or PSDs, no. Have a dog that is much better than most people need, have a dog that is good to learn with, yeah.

VanCamp, I won't go on and on. And what you say about my opinion on the club dogs is valid. I have met other people from different places that happen to share my same opinion and again it's just an opinion. We've been through this monotonous discussion before. No need to keep going.


Bob and Richard,

Just because the pit bull is typically not a nervous breed and has a higher threshold to defense we should not eliminate them as protection candidates. They're excellent fighters (man) and their insensitivity keeps them long ways from the avoidance line.

So they're social. OK. Great! That "natural protective instinct" you speak of is not getting you far at all until you shape the dog through training. They're just both learning the same goal in different ways.