What are you defining as prey drive, in their actions?
Julie

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What are you defining as prey drive, in their actions?
Julie

The definition I am working with this that prey drive is the drive to chase, catch and hold a moving object.

Most of my dogs are ball fanatics. HOwever, they also have good pack drive. Thus the ball is also about interaction WITH me. Having said that, my dogs will also take a ball and play with themselves with it. Throwing it in the air, catching it etc. They will also chase each other non stop when one has a ball etc. It alsmost becomes a game of tag.

I do think how they are raised can make a difference and likley what comes into play here is also how one channels it.

I also think that hunt drive comes into play, something that is combined with prey/play. Likley you will get a variety of answers from people depending on how they view drives/explain drives and what they call different drives.

I think the ultimate you would want for a SAR dog is one that has all the above. Great prey drive, hunt drive and pack drives. A dog who wants to play ball continually, so much so that they will hunt for it until they find it and then also include 'you' in the game.

When my male was used for stud for the purposes of producing bomb dogs, they tested him in all the above. It wasn't just about a ball crazy dog but one that will look for THE ball/toy that was hidden. Many dogs will give up the hunt and just go get another ball to play with. You actually want the dog who continues to look for the hidden ball and does not give up.

I work a lot with border collies (herding) and own one. Although many are ball fanatics, there are many that are not and are still very good herding dogs. My guy is a ball fanatic (NEVER stops...and if there is no ball, he is known to throw a blade of thick grass at you to throw for him!!!). If there is a person there he always engages the person in the game. If not...he plays by himself. On sheep....he is phenominal.

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I also think that hunt drive comes into play, something that is combined with prey/play. Likley you will get a variety of answers from people depending on how they view drives/explain drives and what they call different drives.

Got that - have seen some put hunt as a part of prey complex and others consider it a separate drive - but both schools stress the relentless olfactory searching for an unseen object. Absolutely needed for SAR or detection.

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I work a lot with border collies (herding) and own one. Although many are ball fanatics, there are many that are not and are still very good herding dogs. My guy is a ball fanatic (NEVER stops...and if there is no ball, he is known to throw a blade of thick grass at you to throw for him!!!). If there is a person there he always engages the person in the game. If not...he plays by himself. On sheep....he is phenominal.

YES, the grass throwers! - this must have to do with the social and retrieve aspects of the dog. My dog does not throw grass but I know plenty who do and these do seem to be the ball fanatics.

My dog will play ball all day long -- once my dad was determined to "wear her out" but he picked a cool day. 2 hours later HE came in to take some aspririn for his arm and gave up. But she will not initiate the game like the grass throwers do.

I had to teach retrieve as the natural inclination of my dog was to catch, kill, and possess. (less pack drive?) Now if another dog has a ball, she gets pretty aggressive about chasing and taking the ball from that dog, even IF the other dog is dominant --

The question would be how important is that RETRIEVE portion of the behavior to SAR work?, to detection work?

She is working very well and has good hunt drive (however you classify it) but I always want to learn more as my next dog will be a cadaver dog and I think you may really need more of the retriever type behavior for detection work.......and that is the nuance I am trying to understand. Getting closer though.

My freinds trains bomb/narcotic dogs. Trying to remember all what she says. I think the most important aspect is actually the hunt and not retrieve. Even a dog who possess will work as they will hunt to possess! Now, you will have to teach an out/let go etc, so you can move on. I know she has trained dogs for bomb (and they do VERY well at it) that are not necessarily the retrieving dogs BUT, they will HUNT non stop for a ball/toy to possess.
I think you will have a lot more 'luck' teaching your dog to retrieve if they have the other things (hunt/possess) in them. Would be hard to teach it the other way around. If your dog only wants to retrieve and does not want to hunt and possess.....they will go off and bring anything else to retrieve rather than hunt for what you asked. Hope that makes sense.

Yes makes more sense.

By the time I am dead I will know enough about dogs, probably not before then.

All of the grass throwing crazy dogs I have seen have extreme prey drive but I have seen some without hunt drive.

I have also seen dogs with apparent good hunt drive that were not ball (or tug) crazy - challenge with those dogs is a good reward system.

Out of my last gsd litter I sold one for SAR. Was an awesome puppy!!!! He came back at 4 months of age due to the owner NOT doing SAR with him like promised and then deciding to breed poodles instead <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, he then went to a home in Portland for someone who is deaf and wanted a gsd hearing assistance dog. This person has done 'all' thier homework and found trainers who would train puppy (provided he was a good candidate etc) for her etc. They are both doing awesome! In his first/second session, the trainer laughed and told the new owner this guy should have been a SAR dog! He went out into her large field and found every toy/ball she had ever 'lost' out there (trainer used to train seeing eye dogs and did not know this particular pups history etc).

I was a bit worried about the puppy having too much drive for the work but they are doing wonderfully. He is awesome. Every trainer that has worked with him has been impressed so that is cool.

Nancy:
I have posed a similar question on other forums , to other dog trainers. I am more curious though why some dogs have high ball drive/ low food drive or or visa versa, and what it has to do with drive satisfaction ?