Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#66424 - 01/23/2006 11:44 PM |
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...no experience with them,but do know that it is *not* a training/certifying group for assistance dogs. the name has caused a lot of confusion for those of us with SDs/assistance dogs,because it not really made clear what their aims are,and many new owner/trainers of SDITs are confused by the name.
Gail |
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Gail Nichols ]
#66425 - 01/24/2006 11:23 AM |
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Ian McVey ]
#66426 - 01/24/2006 12:34 PM |
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I find it amusing that they feel their titles are gonna be "THE" thing in the US, yet, there's no clubs in most of the country.
What I'd like to see is a sport that has a little flexibility. Not everyone wants to have a personal protection dog that performs in the exact same way as someone may want their personal protection dog to perform. Small details that would lose points in a sport that wants things done a specific way that you don't want the dog to do. If you raise a dog to specifically work for a sport that's fine, like raising your dog to train according to the rules of ASR - but if you train your dog as a PPD then later decide you want to do ASR with your dog to show people how good your dog is, then the problems start arising when your dog is trained to perform a task a different way than allowable by ASR. I can't think of any examples right now, but I know there's routines in Schutzhund that I would want to perform differently for a PPD, as well as various other sports that I've looked into.
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#66427 - 01/24/2006 07:14 PM |
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Mike,
ASR was a bad choice to use. ASR IS PP training and nothing less. If you raise an ASR 3 dog and granted this is opinion but there is some compelling evidence to back this up but that is about the best as a PP dog can get. The only thing that makes ASR a sport is the fact that we don't have decoys available to take real bites to go that extra mile in testing them. ASR trainers mentality is to train for realism and NOT sport. We're the only program that I know of that puts focus on overcoming the program and not winning HIT or 1st place you never hear that ever around ASR. It is offered but the atmosphere is not that of I must get 1st place. ASR folks are more concerned with testing THEIR dogs and putting out REAL dogs. That is what seperates us from traditional sport. ASR's purpose message is stated as below:
"American Street Ring is a network of dog training enthusiasts whose goals are to promote quality, practical protection training in a realistic setting. It is a A fun and competitive, non-breed specific program designed to be interchangeable with European programs and serves as a quality foundation for dogs entering police or security work."
The trial portion is nothing more than for you to test, and to keep you having fun and see where your work or breeding is stacking up to whats out there. That is one way that you yourself can grow and intensify your own program.
ASR is PP training, I would grab any ASR 2-3 dog right off a field and walk home with him through multiple big city allys (of course a dog can't beat a gun so my XD-40 would have his back there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
COL Nathan R. Jessup for President |
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#66428 - 01/24/2006 08:25 PM |
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Chris, do you honestly like the XD40?
I never thought I'd find someone that actually chooses to carry that thing. LOL
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#66429 - 01/24/2006 08:40 PM |
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XD40? what a load of Buck Rogers, Generation X'er POS pistol is that? I'll keep 1911A1 thankyouverymuch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#66430 - 01/24/2006 09:18 PM |
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LOL ok sorry Chris, ASR was a bad choice of reference, because from everything I've seen of it I can't find anything I would think should be done differently (but who am I to say anyway right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> . But there's some things I see in sports, incl KNPV which I hold in reasonably high regard, that I think "why would that make sense in a personal protection scenario?". There's also things that I think would be beneficial, or "kinda cool" to teach a dog, that perhaps wouldn't receive credit or would lose points in a sport that dictates exactly how a dog should perform. For example, if a dog is on the left arm and the other guy somehow still has the strength to reach for a weapon with his right arm, I've seen dogs that will switch arms when a weapon is drawn, or if the other arm comes down over the dog (and from what I understand from the description of Ed's Personal Protection DVD, arm switching is also covered in there). I don't know ASR's view on things like this, but I know most sports would penalize the dog for coming off the bite and consider it avoidance. If I knew how to teach it, and I'm sure I'll find out when the time comes, I'd like to teach my next dog to do just that. I'm not saying it's a better or worse way to train a dog, or that an ASR3 dog that holds a bite no matter what is doing it "wrong" or less effectively, but lets say hypothetically that I chose to train my dog to switch arms when a weapon comes into sight and go for the wrist on the other hand (because I'm an ol' softy that would rather my dog not get hit on the head by a guy with a pipe wrench <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> , then take him to a trial of ANY sport - are there any sports that would take into account the way I chose to train my dog and not penalize me for this? Perhaps if I explained to the judge "this is how I trained my dog, you can penalize him for insecurity in his bite, but don't penalize him for switching arms if his bite is good" or something to that effect? Or is that just something that'll screw you out of ever titling a dog?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue over wether this is good training or bad training, I don't know if it'd be effective training for a real world situation or if it's totally stupid, my point is that if someone were to want to teach their dog to do this, for whatever reason, would this totally eliminate any future sport participation for that dog during stick hits or other such exercises where the decoy brings the other arm down over the dog?
As for ASR, I would honestly be very proud to title my upcoming dutch shepherd pup in ASR (she was born last night by the way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> . I don't know how far I can take Cujo, maybe he'll make the entry level one day, maybe he'll exceed my expectations entirely, but my goal for my dutchie is PP/ASR from Day 1.
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#66431 - 01/25/2006 04:40 PM |
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OK, First Hell yeah, I love my XD-40 I have 2400rds logged on mine and haven't had (1) malfunction yet, I love my rate of fire, and the weapon is highly accurate (atleast mine is) and I love my add on tritium sights. I have a glock, and a 1911. I must say my 1911 is my favorite, followed by my XD then my glock.
Now to dog training: Mike,
In ASR your dog is allowed to come off the bite and transfer, but the caution there is that your dog better be 100% confident and committed when he transfers if he goes to transfer and for whatever reason there appears to be slight hesitation he will get gigged. The transfers must be fluent and committed. If they are, your dog will not be gigged for coming off the bite and transfering.
COL Nathan R. Jessup for President |
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#66432 - 01/25/2006 04:58 PM |
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Well Chris, sure sounds like ASR rocks then doesn't it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I was planning on heading down to the west palm trial last week, but a few other things came up this weekend. I heard you didn't show though? What happened?
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Re: Service Dogs of America ?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#66433 - 01/25/2006 05:56 PM |
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I do not believe that I missed the ASR trials. I live here in West Palm Beach and I bought my GSD in Loxihatchee!!!!!!!! Crud I would have loved to have been there I cannot believe I missed it.
Terry
Treat them like they are animals.
Train them like they are animals.
Love them like they are people. |
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