Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the information. As I said, I have never owned a female before. I have been leaning towards a female GSD because it will be my first GSD. I also consider myself a novice trainer.

I just wanted to know how "messy" heat is. I will look up all the information

I owned a male and they LOVE to raise their leg to everything.


Carolyn

Originally posted by Lauren Woods:
If I remember correctly, osteosarcoma is only increased in neutered males, so spaying a female should decrease her risk. Nope, the lifetime risk of osteosarcoma is increased by a factor of 2 in both male and female dogs who are spay/neutered. The highest risk is among those spay/neutered before they are 1 year old, then the lifetime risk is increased by a factor of 3-4. This is what's been found, and published, in veterinary medical research studies. Possibly the risk may be elevated only in those dogs/bitches spay/neutered before the growth plates close in their bones.

Laura

Originally posted by Lauren Woods:
If osteosarcoma is caused by the lack of testosterone, then a spayed female would be at a lower risk, since their testosterone levels are at a much greater ratio to other hormones than in intact females. I do NOT feel that it is safe to extrapolate this study, and it could even be dangerous and harmful. You can not ASSume that the one mechanism you want to blame is at work. It could be one of many reasons. Lauren, rather than misquoting the published research, please read it first (citations below). There is no extrapolation being done here, and the increased lifetime risk of osteosarcoma is the about the same in neutered male dogs and spayed female dogs. Spayed female dogs have been proven to be at increased risk of osteosarcoma, not decreased risk as you claim.

Vet J. 1998 Jul;156(1):31-9. Host related risk factors for canine osteosarcoma. Ru G, Terracini B, Glickman LT.

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40. Endogenous gonadal hormone exposure and bone sarcoma risk. Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters DJ.

Finally, someone that knows how to post a reference!

That is nothing more than someone justifying what they want to do. There is NO journal reference for the claim of increased HD. And the article is about MALES, not FEMALES. Two different issues, and using that article to justify not spaying a female is at best total BS.
I am not against waiting to spay, just the smearing of potentially dangerous misinformation all over an otherwise respectable forum. Hang on If osteosarcoma is caused by the lack of testosterone, then a spayed female would be at a lower risk, since their testosterone levels are at a much greater ratio to other hormones than in intact females Are you not the one smearing potentailly dangerous misinformation all over an otherwise respectablel forum? Where are you peer reveiwed references.

Finally, someone that knows how to post a reference!
Shame you dont.

I never claimed that what I posted was fact, unlike you who posts BS articles. I was just trying to show the importance of posting references, but I guess it went over your head.

I am not going to waste my time finding articles to support your position. Post them yourself if you think you are so wonderful.

Lauren, an honest observation and maybe a useful critique, I did my best to post a simple answer, with a little bit extra helpful information, for what was a very simple and non-technically minded question. Your responses had the air of a "fear biter" about them, again not a slam, just telling you how it came across to me. It also came across as a bit two faced, in that you wanted to hold me to one standard (ie get very technical and post references) yet you did not hold your self to the same standard. The result was that you posted information that was obviously unsupportable. I could have jumped on that and thereby turned the thread into a big flame fest (which I also sometimes feel you are baiting for), instead I gave you a very sound hint that you should look things up.

Now I just want to make this VERY clear, I am not slamming you with this post, what I am telling you is how your style of communication came across to me. Just be cause I perceive your actions one way does not mean that you intend them to be that way. The reason I am even bothering to mention this is because I do think that you do want to be helpful, but the method you are using to "train" us, I believe, is very ineffectual and causes mostly strife.

Thomas, Laura and Lauren I found the thread enlightening and you both handled the matter as tactiful experts stating thier points of view from there prospective and keeping it on a laymen level of understanding.

I find thats what this board is all about fact finding and sharing knowledge, even if it becomes a debate. Its good to hear bout points of view, I for one enjoyed the debate and learned from the out come.

You both handled the situation well, no I'll meet at sun down in the middle of the street.

Our females is going through a heat cycle, whew. My male GSD went wild, moaning and such I guess he had plans. Not. So I locked her in the garage, during heat stage 1.

Bravo, Encore!!! thanks for the light. The whole thread was enlightening.

Don, is the garage door locked down? You wouldn't believe the stuff I have heard.

All, I should make it very clear that being spayed is far better than having a litter, so I strongly encourage early spays for average pet owners. Most people outside of working dogs (even some show breeders) are too stupid to keep their female from being bred until she is at least 2 and mentally mature (not always the same thing). Just food for thought in case anyone gets asked about this by their neighbor. It sickens me to see people encourage others to fill up the shelter by even hinting that breeding a female is beneficial to the dog. It couldn't be farther from the truth. This is too important to leave out, even though it might not apply to board members. We have to keep things like this in might when dealing with other people.