Kristen, If you have any scientific data that contradicts anything I have stated, please post it or at least email it to me.

Here is a bunch of information that will help you with your research. The data is pretty interesting, what you will find is in that most cases they will admit the increased risks of disease/illness that neutering causes but they will state that the social concerns outweigh those issues.

First, here is a seldom quoted one that shows the correlation between delayed ossification and hip dysplasia
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9154197

Here is one showing delayed ossification in neutered animals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2045340


here is one relating cognitive impairment and neutering
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t_uids=11439769

Here is one relating neutering and bone cancer
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/11/11/1434

Here is one that indicates "Among male and female dogs with early-age gonadectomy, hip dysplasia, noise phobias, and sexual behaviors were increased"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t_uids=14765797

Hypothyrodisim
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8175472

Cardiac tumors
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t_uids=10225598

Increase in infectious diseases
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t_uids=11195826

Kristen there is ton of stuff out there on the subject, when you spread the scope of the search to all mammals the amount of data is even greater.

Like I said I have never seen any scientific data that disagreed with what I had posted, if you know of such please point it out to me. The reason that all this information does not make it more into the public domain is because there is significant money spent by groups that have social agendas that are willing to risk harm to individual animals "for the greater good"
"

What I don't get with all this neutering/not neutering talk and what diseases or afflictions dogs MAY or MAY NOT get is that your dog is eventually going to die of SOMETHING, SOMEDAY.

Different breeds have different life spans and are prone to different diseases. I have a beagle that was neutered by animal control before we adopted him at age 3mths. Does this mean that, now at age 15 (which is quite old for a beagle) that he "has not reached adulthood" because we did not wait until he was 1.5y/o to have him neutered? My Golden Collie mix (spayed at 3mths) was just put down at age 13 because of bone cancer. Others in this board have stated that they lost their GSDs of cancers at age 7-9. How long do we expect these dogs to live???

I have asked on this board the benefit of going to raw versus kibble. I can understand that those of you who have working dogs and/or breed them have different requirements or needs for your dogs in regards to the purpose they serve. But if my Iams-fed dogs are living as long as raw dogs, have healthy shiny teeth and coats, yet dying of the similar types of cancer, etc., what is the benefit of going to raw? The response I received was that raw was less expensive.

I think as responsible dogs owners, we must do the best we can for our dogs but in the long run, we have minimal control over the hand they are dealt. S#!t happens folks...love 'em while ya got 'em.

Kate, sh#t does happen that is true, but that does not mean that you can not mitage the risks of it happening to you or those you care about.
But looking at it from completely your stated point of view, I am surprised that your animals are neutered at all! Taking in a pet for major surgery to remove important body parts is not something that should be done without a really good excuse and that’s not even considering the fact that it increases the risks for a bunch of health issues.

As far as RAW is concerned there is MUCH more to it than just cost. There was very interesting research done on cats on just that very subject.
http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=228

As far as dogs, there is one very evident difference between raw and kibble. Bitches fed kibble cannot reproduce in a manner that their bodies were designed too. The reason one hears the "advice" about not breeding a dog on every cycle and how it "damages" a bitch is because those animals do not receive the proper nutrition for their bodies to perform in a manner THAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO.

Kate, not everyone can explain why things work, few could explain exactly how a car works, how a remote control works, or even how a flower works, but that does not mean that they are not good things or that we should just ignore them and live life based on the theory of stuff happens.

This website I thought did a pretty good job of explaining pros and cons (on the neutering issue)

http://www.geocities.com/labsr4ulist/pawneuter.htm

I'll get back to you with some actual information from veterinary hospitals, but I wanted to post this site just as something to go on for people like me who would like to see both sides of the issue.

Kristen, Im going to hold you to the same standard you held me to, and I quote "So if you, and anyone else, can give me some good, solid references, I'd much appreciate it. Without references, all that you've said pretty much means nothing." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I know; I just haven't had time to get everything together and post it on here yet. I don't have internet access at home, so I have to save everything to disks and bring them here to work and try to post when I get a chance.

Thomas,
Not sure why you are saying you’re surprised my animals are neutered at all. I rescued them from local shelters and it was required, though I would have done it anyway. There are enough unwanted animals in this country these days. Why create more? I adopted them as family pets, not to be working, breeding or show dogs.

Regarding “Taking in a pet for major surgery to remove important body parts is not something that should be done without a really good excuse and that’s not even considering the fact that it increases the risks for a bunch of health issues” is exactly what I am talking about based on the posts by board members here.

If my neutered/spayed dogs are living healthy lives and live just as long (if not longer) than other member’s AND dying similar cancer-related deaths, how can you support the statement “it increases the risks for a bunch of health issues”?

Some breeds are more prone to diseases than others, regardless of whether they are intact or not. They are OLD, they are going to die of SOMETHING eventually. And I would think that 15yrs for a beagle and 13yrs for a Golden is a pretty darn good life span!

Re: “…that does not mean that they are not good things or that we should just ignore them and live life based on the theory of stuff happens”. Not sure where this came from but you clearly do not know me if that’s your assumption of how I treat my dogs. If that were the case, I would not be a member of this board, would I?

Suggestion: I'd value your input more if you discussed the issue instead of being so condescending to others. Unfortunately, your posts are filled with more attitude than knowledge.

Kate, I did not mean to come across "condescending", but I do hold people to the same standard as they hold me. As far as why I am surprised your dogs are neutered, simple, if your philosophy is "stuff happens" why would you even bother to get them neutered. I understand now, though, you said you were forced to get them that way.

as far as this statement goes "
If my neutered/spayed dogs are living healthy lives and live just as long (if not longer) than other member’s AND dying similar cancer-related deaths, how can you support the statement “it increases the risks for a bunch of health issues”?
", please let me parody that statement in a way that will make it absolutely clear why the one observation has no value. Here goes'

'
If my friends (who live high risk sexual lifestyles) are living healthy lives and live just as long (if not longer) than other friends who practice abstinence, how can you support the statement “high risk sexual activity increases the risks of getting AIDS?"
'

I hope that parody is clear enough, that I don't have to explain the problems with the logic.

Jason,I am no expert by any means..You have no idea where this dog came from..or his experiences.Forget trying to figure out what breed crosses..he is.Deal only with teaching him you are his master.If his behaviour is unpredictable with dogs or children..Then do not expose him to either..until you have a "Handle" on him.I would kennel him..and allow free time to run and exercise without the distraction of the other dog/kids..Pick one toy..ball/or what you have handy and play with him that area..no distractions.If he does somewhat heal and sit..do it in that area. I would NOT allow him to be on any furniture.The tugging on the corgis neck collar IS A NO!!!! Perhaps he wants to play..and have some sort of action..Perhaps he is showing his dominance.Either way..It should not be allowed!!You have your mind set on neutering..and thats okay.You are probably thinking that you do not want to deal with the possibility of pups somewhere..Good. But I hope you know that having him neutered is not a cure all..to settle him down.Only you can do that with proper training.

Thomas,Although the initial thread was not about the pro's and con's of neutering and documented proof thereof.I totally agree with you.