catched Doc too - that dog is also great. i got a female pup out of him and Kalie. super duper drives! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We bred Turcodos last year. The dog is an awsome working dog and the pups were nice - but he has problems with ears coming up on his pups. We did not know this when we bred him

Is there a disadvantage to a working dog's ears not coming up?

I thought working dogs were bred strictly for intelligence, health, temperament and drive, not for one particular physical attribute that some may not like. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Clearly Ed knows much more than I do, so I ask: Is a working dog who's ears do not come up inferior in any way?

Simple answer NO. It is a cosmetic problem and doesn't effect working ability.

Longer Answer: A working German Shepherd still needs to look like a German Shepherd. The erect, pricked ears are a key part of that look.

If you are the end user of the dog and it will live it's life as a working dog, then no problem. You probably have a slight advantage since the dog is likely to be discounted in price. I've heard that Shepherds with long coats are often used as police dogs in Europe. They are cheaper to purchase because they are not suitable for breeding.

However, if the dog is to be bred, it should meet the breed standard. If you go through the Koer-Klassing (sp?) procedure, it absolutely must meet the standard.

According to the SV standard, floppy ears are a disqualifying fault. Pups whose ears fail to stand often get returned to the breeder. So, yes, floppy ears are a problem.

 Quote:

(from the SV standard)
http://www.vomhausgochi.com/Website/standard.htm
The German Shepherd Dog has pricked ears of medium size, which are carried upright and neither pointing outward nor inward; they taper to a point and are held with the opening of the shell facing forward. Tipped over and hanging ears are faulty. Ears laid back during gating and/or relaxation are not faulted.

As a SWAG, the erect ear preferences is a functional standard that exists because that shape helps improve the acuity of the dog's hearing. The megaphone shape probably helps amplify sounds that reach the dog.

Trying to get soft ears to stand is a giant pita. I do admit that a galumpy six-month old pup provides a certain amount of comic relief when he has a tampon stuffed in his ear with surgical tape wrapped around the outside.

Turcodos is a Mal for those that might not know.I don't think professional and individuals that depend on their dog to work care if a ear is floppy. I personally don't care if a dog doesn't meet the SV guidelines. The reason the GSD is in the shape it is now,because of people caring more about looks rather than what actually matters the working ability and temperament. The Sv will be the down fall of the GSD by placing too much value on looks and not working ability.

i think that many would agree that while cosmetics are not important when speaking of a working german shepherd, i believe i would still definately prefer to have my dogs ears that are up, if a stud produces faulty ears on dogs, then they shouldnt be bred unless their working ability so far outweighs their ears that potential owners of the pups will still be happy with the product, many wouldnt myself included, the fact is that studs that produce well are easily accessible if you have the conections/money, so why use a stud that has had trouble with anything in his offspring?

im with ed on this one, i wouldnt use him anymore if it was a substantial problem.

I don't think a quality WORKING dog, who has faulty ears shouldn't be breed. I think future owners of pups should be told upfront if known. If, you have a stud with a minor cosmetic fault maybe you should target a different customer base. Target the professional markets police and military.

I'm sure those young men in Iraq and Afghanistan, would prefer a dog that can actually work to one who meets all the SV requirements for looks. If, my life depended on a dog I personally would not care if it looked like a red-#$$ baboon backside. As long as the proper drives and temperament were present to do the job required.