The rules changes also effect DVG, so Europe is affected also ( the removal of gunfire from the BH actually originated in Europe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

I thought these organizations were supposed weed out the weak and reward those that breed and train for working traits. Why, would the membership allow lowering the standards? Lowering the standards lessens the value of titles already achieved; it does nothing to improve the working character of dogs involved. The only benefit I can see is to the Organization and sponsors who profit by titling more dogs that wouldn't other wise pass the test.

Chris, I have to disagree with you about titleing a bitch. I have never seen any proof that it helps, and the only place I know that worries about it is here in the states. Well, look around we really are not world-wide producers of any type of dog, we buy mostly from europeans, because we are not producing very well. Something to think about.

I see what your saying, yes there are awesome dogs out there without a working dam, but the working dogs that I have seen out of two working parents, have been the ultimate, and if everyone did that and weeded out the non-working females, then what I'm saying is I believe if you think there are absolutely great dogs out there now, then watch the new dogs that would come out of two great working dogs. (provided everything else required for breeding was in place) I would have to talk to you off line (email)to explain to you were I am basing this opinion. I feel strongly about this, I would only buy a pup if the sire AND dam were working dogs, and likewise for me breeding, I refuse to breed a bitch I didn't work or wouldn't work, I wouldn't care if she was off a world champion that was only bred once, I'd have her fixed and find her a home for free.

Chris, you might want to quit confusing the term "untitled" with meanings of "untested" or "untrained" or "unworthy." They are not synonyms, nor do they have anything in common. I've seen quite a few titled bitches that I would seriously pass on any offspring out of them (even a couple I saw at Nationals). However, I've seen some really nice untitled bitches that have produced quite well. The only country that requires a female to be titled is Germany, however many sport breeders in the US are trying to get people to believe that if a bitch is untitle then the litter is inferior quality to their litters from titled bitches...either directly or indirectly. I know quite a few breeders that have tried perpetuating this myth (and they continue to do so). Yet despite all their grandstanding, there are breeders in Belgium and Holland using untitled females and producing some very nice dogs.

Since they are going to destroy Schutzhund, I say we all jump ship and start training ringsports. I am doing Mondio and Chris and Will are doing ASR. My club is having a seminar With Teo Mariscal June 21- 26 in lovely out in the middle of nowhere Colorado at Charley Barthalamew's ranch in Los Animas. It is 200 bucks for 6 days lunch included or 150 w/out. We will be having Decoy certification/camp and it's going to be good fun.

This is some routines of what SCH used to look like when we copied the programm in sweden from germany many moons ago, but we never changed the rules, and I´m glad for that.

Click at "video" and then scroll down to "inspelat från SM 2002", to watch some videos.

http://www.ipo.nu

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Chris, you might want to quit confusing the term "untitled" with meanings of "untested" or "untrained" or "unworthy." They are not synonyms, nor do they have anything in common.

Your right, though I feel you should trial them, but not necessary, As long as you work them.

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I've seen quite a few titled bitches that I would seriously pass on any offspring out of them (even a couple I saw at Nationals).

I'm with you on this one, the same here for me
That's why I said, " watch the new dogs that would come out of two great working dogs. (provided everything else required for breeding was in place)"

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there are breeders in Belgium and Holland using untitled females and producing some very nice dogs.

That's why I said, "While that may produce dogs like A-Tim and others, If they bred based on pedigree,nerves, temperment, and workability lastly as a must, they would most likely raise the level of the dogs". Not that the level of dogs is bad, that is not what I meant, I just mean, an even higher caliber of dogs, this is my belief and my opinion.

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many sport breeders in the US are trying to get people to believe that if a bitch is untitle then the litter is inferior quality to their litters from titled bitches.

That is not my belief, I just bought a puppy from Fontaine D'Or Working Malinois, and the Dam is FRII (trained) not titled. My point is she is a working female.
Bottom line for me is I would like to see BOTH parents titled, but the damn doesn't absolutely have to be as long as she is worked and can prove that she indeed does have the desired traits that you are looking for in a breeding prospect. When I use to do breeding it was proved in my eyes the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, the dam gives just as much to the pups, but hey we are all entitled to our opinions, show me two breeders or trainers who think %100 alike (husbands and wives don't count) and I'll show you seimese twins who share a brain. Mike where are you located I see you call yourself cajun you must be from the acadiana area, I'm creole (did you recognize the name?), so I guess next we'll debate who has the best cooking and who stole what reciepe's from who, LOL I'm from Lake Charles, LA born and raised, and I'll be headed home in a few weekends for 4 days maybe we could meet to just say hi face to face.

if working breeders are breeding such suitable dogs then how come the German Police are going to other countries ?

I know there is far few less working line breeders but there must be enough to supply the German police forces with dogs. Anyone have any answers on this ?

Chris,
I'm from Lafayette. Just shoot me an email when you get into the area.