I would like to thank everyone that posted their opinions on this dog. You were all polite and I believe right in your judgments.It is a shame the owner is delusional and believes this is a hard dog. I wish these show breeders would realize every time they breed these weak dogs they are destroying a working breed.

Would this dog pass the protection phase at sch trial? If, he would then reputable sch club's should protest and raise their standards. I'm sorry the owner saw this as aflame but he did ask for comments. Instead of attacking, the messengers, he should take a hard and critical look at his dog.

I wish these people would compare their dogs abilities to working lines. See how much slower,weaker and less intense showlines are compared to workinglines.Then they might understand how they are destroying the breed.When is the sch world going to wake up? When they let weaker dogs pass because they are show dogs it hurts everyone. That urge for the quick dollar is eroding the meaning of these titles. There should be one standard for performance and if the pretty dogs can't pass the test they shouldn't be bred unless to dogs that can. So,maybe in 5 to 10 generation showdogs could actually be work dogs as the name implies.

Your right about schutzhund titles having less meaning. My father did schutzhund when I was growing up and I remember thinking if your dog wasn't schutzhund titled it wasn't anything (hey I was a kid). Schutzhund titles still mean something but it's a shame when you have to look at the dog to decide if it's a worthy title or not. Achieving a schutzhund title use to make the dog, now the dog has to make the schutzhund title. Well here's a plug, there is always ASR, who is now going to recognize and support ASR clubs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Outsider's observation... (you hardcore folks would consider me a "pet owner" - I'm more into studying animal behavior) I got the impression the dog was playing tug with the guy. Do they normally wag their tails when they attack? My big Golden Retriever does the same thing when we are tugging over his stuffed bear. He wags and chews at it while I hold it, like this GSD did with the guy's sleeve. Also, the dog looked quite distracted to me, not as "intense" and focused as I would think one would need to be for this type of work.

I totally agree, you see this in everything. Standards lowered to make a buck.I not familiar with ASR but, will do a search and check into it. I just bough a Eros pup with great sch competition pedigree. Would like to see him work to his abilities. If ,he has nerves and drives I expect.

Kate,you nailed it on the head. Even a novice like myself could see this dog didn't have it. I wish they would rename the showlines the Teddy Bear Shepherd.

So where did all the posts go on his site that disagreed with the skill level of the dog? There were links that Chris Duhon posted of his dog earlier that I wanted to go back and watch but now they're gone. Some big time gaps in between posting too. Hmmm, is the owner editing out the posts he doesn't like? So much for asking for an "honest opinion"!

Kate,
There still up.

 Quote:

.It is a shame the owner is delusional and believes this is a hard dog.

Would this dog pass the protection phase at sch trial?

See how much slower,weaker and less intense showlines are compared to workinglines.

If that owner thinks this dog is a "hard dog" he or she needs glasses and a big dose of reality therapy. That dog is about one step from leaving the helper to return to the handler. I would have run it off the field.

Not only would that dog pass the protection phase of a SchH trial ( but with low points for repeated commands to "out" ) but I've seen dogs do *far* worse than this and title at a club that I've been to ( WDA club with the judge being a friend of the other judge who bred the piece of fur covered cr*p <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> )

Not all showlines are bad dogs - I've seen several with strong B&H's, excellent speed, and good presence on the helper. These good ones are just a lot less common than in the working lines, but the weak ones get bred way too often. And for the price that the showlines breeders charge for their dogs, can you really blame them for breeding? An entry level puppy out of showlines goes for $2500. There are some forum members here with high level showlines dogs that consistantly show good performance. We've seen a few good showlines dog at the Flinks seminar's also.

If you really want to see the problems with the showlines dogs, go to the "look pretty" shows and watch the mandatory courage test that they put those dogs through. I could *not* believe the judge was awarding "pronounced" in courage to many of those dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

This is a good reason to keep AKC from doing bite sports. You'll start to see all kinds of crap like this. Unfortunately, I've seen as bad a performance with great scores from a very (formerly)respected judge at a DVG trial here. Still trying to get the video Will.

This is disheartening. I'm brand new to the sport, but I can tell you that I would not trial my pup if he looked like the dog in the video. That just isn't what I would consider even entry level acceptable, and I would be embarrassed to waste the judge's time.

But you guys are saying that this isn't only acceptable, but it's common and respected??? I could have a SchH titled dog with a performance like this??? What's the point?

jd