I think in general it has more to do with the temparment of the particular dog, than it does the breed. I currently have a male mal that is just over 1 1/2 years old that is in the house most of the time. He is great around everyone, and I can leave him alone in the house without worrying about him getting into anything he shouldn't....On the other hand, a friend of mine has a mal that will tear down walls, doors, etc..and get into things he shouldnt all the time.... I've also had a shepherd inside that was great around the house, and I've also heard horror stories about shepherds...

I have a 1 1/2 year old Mal and he is fine in the house, I do exercise, and ob and tracking him almost everyday, when he is inside he is off, and when he is outside training then he is on, a few times when I was sick and can not exercise him for a couple of days, whenever I let him outside to do his business, he just ran back and forth in the back yard like a crazy dog on drugs, once he release some of that energy he is back a calm dog in the house, I also had 3 GS that lived in the house and they are fine too, one advantage the Mal has over the GS is that they don't shed but twice a year, GS sheds everyday and all the time, I think the majority is how you raise the dog, if you let him go nuts in the house then he will, if you don't then he won't, at first when I first got him as a pup then yes he was nuts, I just make sure that he got plenty of exercise, put some rules in the house and make sure he understand NO and now he is very good house dog.

It seems to me that trying to make a generalization about any one breed is a dangerous way to think. In principle, there is no difference between saying "GSD's are generally great in the house", "Mals generally don't do well in the house", and "pit bulls are generally a child attack waiting to happen". All three statements are generalizations about a breed that should not be made. In many other places on this board I have read posts stating flatly that, for instance, APBT's just need proper training and socialization and they are no danger to anyone. I agree with that statement. Can you not also say that any dog with proper training can be a house dog eventually? If a trainer has the ability to teach a dog to successfully negotiate a Schz. course, do forced retrieves, competition obedience, long recall, etc., then the trainer has the skill to teach the dog manners in the house - it is simply a matter of applying training time to that specific facet. High drive is fantastic, but I do not think "high drive" should be confused with "out of control" or used as an excuse for out of control behavior. If a dog is smart enough and trainable enough to do any sort of service, then I contend it is smart enough to learn to behave in the hoouse, if training time is devoted to that subject.

I guess the main point of this, however, is to emphasize that anytime we start making breed generalizations about anything we are giving ammunition to the clowns who say "protection dogs are agressive" or "pit bulls are killers" etc., by tacitly implying that generalizations about breeds are ok to make. Much better, I think, to redirect the conversation toward individual dogs and trainers, and hold them accountable for the abilities or lack of abilities the dog has. Sure, breeds have tendencies, and genetics matter, which is why it would be tough to try and make a coonhound a police service dog. But tendencies are only a small part of the story, or service dogs would be ready to work at 8 weeks, and every dog with the right bloodlines would make a great dog. I think Ed and any other breeder out there will tell you that even the best on paper breeding doesn't mean squat without good training, and even then, some dogs just are not cut out for certain things. Every individual dog is different, and the difference lies in large part (I would bet 75% at least) to the time and ability of the person who trained it.

Q: How old should kids be before they stay home alone unsupervised?
A: Depends on the kid, but if the answer is never, then the parents have probably not devoted much time to teaching the kid to behave in the house, and it would irresponsible to let that kid out into the world to do a job.

Have a nice day, all.

Well, I actually disagree with you Jeff.

I'd say that the majority of working Malinois are going to have issues being house dogs. If a great trainer can occupy the dog's time every single minute of every single day and night then they won't have a problem, but I don't know anyone like that so. . . .


Mals have high energy levels and display nasty OC and displacement behaviors more often than any other breed I've ever seen. They can be a menace in the house. You would literally have to be on top of the dog every second of the day to make it work and you would have to inhibit the hell out of him. Better to crate the dog or have a kennel.

The only other dog that I've seen with that level of energy and insane necessity to be occupied doing something are Kelpies bred from very hard cattle and sheep working lines. You just can't have them free in your house unless you run the shat out of them for 10 hours a day first.

Sure generalizations aren't so great, but when the shoe fits. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Of course it depends on how you define house dog. I think of house dog as a dog that has free access in the home 24/7 and can be left alone in the home for extended periods without issue.

I definately agree Robert. Why spend your time hoping for a house dog, when you can kennel it and train it for dog sports? My dog does NOT respond to social pressure. He would tear thru something if left alone for a 4 hour period. In my opinion I have many more important things to teach my dog, than to flail about trying to make a house dog.

Dan...

If the Rotties you speak of are the 'control group' you are going to use as a comparison and one you highly 'prize', then I would strongly recommend you stay with the GSD. Yes there are exceptions to every rule; but I think you have to go with the norm.

Chris buddy you let me down us Mal guys have to stick together on this GSD board <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have a Mal that Does live inside and has since I got him now I can tell you that the first year was HELL but after he mellowed out he is cool. I can leave him all day while at work with no worries he loves my 7 month old son and will follow him anywhere he crawls. They share toys and have a blast. I don't think I will have another indoor Mal one is enough but he has really turned out to be a great all around dog. After I get done training with him I will put him in his crate to cool off but other then that he is cool. Sleeps on the bed and all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Matt,
Yeah, I know I lost mali points but hey what am I to do.
PS: Matt, I'm waiting on the BoD to give the final approval all is looking good so far, I want to host an ASR trial here in Columbus July 2 (SATURDAY). PM me for questions.

Robert and Jeff,
Valid points, but I still believe any smart dog can be trained (or grow up enough / mellow enough) to eventually become a house dog. To address what you said, Jeff, that is the crux of it. If my previous post indicated that every trainer should devote time and energy into making their dog a good house dog, then I did not make my point well. A lot of folks do not have the time, energy, or desire to make a dog a house dog, and so what? It is their house and their dog. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. And, for instance, in Roberts example of really highly bred working cattle dogs - I am not sure why anyone would want to make one of those dogs a house dog, but if they did want to, they probably could, eventually. There is also a big difference between a dog with manners in the house as long as it is in the same area as you are while you are awake, and a dog that can be left anytime, supervised or not. The second is certainly much harder to achieve than the first, and the time / result ratio may not ever be worth it for some dogs, but that would be the dog more than the breed.

The more important point I was trying to make is that generalizing about breed tendencies as possibly trumping the best efforts of a trainer is a bad generalization to make. Are there dogs that will never get it, whatever the it you are trying to train is? Of course, but that should be a dog by dog judgement, not a breed judgement.