From what I understand about the "purely positive" book (i haven't read it myself) it is a little misleading - perhaps intentionally.

dust off your psychology books – food is "positive reinforcement" and a physical correction is "positive punishment" in operant conditioning terms.

Positive Reinforcement + Positive Punishment = "purely positive" training.

clever clever.

Ed just wrote a very good article about dog training using a scale of far right, far left and right in the middle. I believe he is absolutely right, and purely positive training would be great if it proofed your dog well enough for competition or PSD's but it doesn't. All 100% positive is going to do for you is get you a petsmart certificate, on the other hand, being to hard all the time will make your dog look like a skittish nervous wreck, balance is key. Below is Ed's article.
http://leerburg.com./philosophy.htm

I would like to hear what your parameters are for correction. With a puppy at what point do you start to use a correction? I have thought about using corrections, then after looking at the problem realized that I could have been clearer with my marking. I am not talking about a finished dog. Buko gets better when I mark more clearly. I guess that everytime I anticipate using corrections I see that I could of been clearer. I really haven't had to do to much with corrections so far. JUust curious to see when you start

Hey,

Thanks for the webiste. I talked to John Meyer- MID ISLAND SchH CLUB and will be visiting him next weekend.

Thanks a lot Mike. I will keep you guys posted. Let me know if anyone personally recommends someone.

Regards,
Rashmi

 Quote:

Positive Reinforcement + Positive Punishment = "purely positive" training.

clever clever.

You're right! LOL A lot of people use the word "motivational". Any change in behavior caused by bad or good was motivated.

Jeff,
I almost always teach what I want without compulsion, once I know the dog or puppy understands fully what I want, if he doesn't do it he is then just being dis-obedient, which I see as a sign of attempting to dominate me, he is telling me I'm not that high on his rank structure and that he can do what he wants, I don't tolerate that from a dog or a puppy, but the two are handled differently. I'll take this other puppy I use to have named pablo. when he was 6mo old, I would do retrieve exercises with him, and I would put him in a sit/stay, and he would always break stay to get the kong as soon as I threw it. Now he knew stay very well, but because of his age I felt it was to early to proof him with compulsion, so in this case, when he would break stay and studder step forward anticipating me throwing the kong, I would tell him no as he was in motion and then grab him and put him up, no game for him, maybe I'd let him try later. That was my way of dominating/correcting him without risking breaking his spirit or retrieval drive, though he did start listening, I know full well he wasn't *proofed* until later when I could add compulsion, what I did as mentioned above brought alot more control, but it still wasn't total control as I feel you get when you proof with compulsion then high praise.
With an older dog, I teach and when learned if he disobeys I use compulsion, then I turn on my acting charm and I do my best to make him realize that I am not holding a grude, a grudge would be pissed off at your dog for long after his mess up like the rest of training your in a pissed off mood. That does the dog no good, and makes it harder on the dog to except corrections, I act like I just saw him for the first time that day right after the correction, I want to instill in him, I am loving and one to be trusted, but I will not stand for disobedience. My dogs have always taken corrections from me good, because I communicate to them that I am not holding a grudge from their disobedience 20min ago, a very little puppy, like 3mo or so, I don't correct for breaking stay or not going to the sit, they just don't get the treat if they don't do it, I also, keep those sessions short as to not allow their little minds to start wondering and then invite failure. The only thing I really correct for when they are this young, is direct aggression to me or an immediate family member, I then usually grab them up by the scruff and in a strong tone tell them NNEEEEEYYYY!

I used Koehler (sp?) and no food for years and had dogs that did very well. I have been using food and toys for 6 or 7 years and looking back, see many instances where I corrected to early. I got the job done for sure, but I see a big difference in what I am doing now. I think that I am finally getting the hang of it and it is starting to show in my work. Greedily I would like to try to use no corrections and title a dog. I think it may be an unrealistic goal, but I am going to give it a shot!