Checked Kato all over. No reddness between the toes or anywhere else. Only the muzzle area. It seems to clear up then flares up again and only on his muzzle. I would really love to feed raw, but I wouldn't even know where to start. I tried reading up on it, but it only leaves me with more questions than answers. And plus with the way Kato inhales food, how can I be sure he isn't going to kill himself trying to swallow half a chicken whole? And how do I know how much food per dog to feed. If someone could send me a PM listing an ideal diet for the dogs, I would be forever grateful. Between both dogs, I go through about 40-60 lbs of dog food a month.

We are going through the same situation this week. Ginger was born with demodex mange. Her rescue mom took care of her by mitaban dips at the vet. Ginger was 11 months old when she came into our lives. We have been giving her Ivermectin also on top of the mitaban dips. From the vet's observation last November, the mites seemed like they were going away...then last week Ginger's armpits and face flared up with pimple like bumps. The visit to the vet consisted of a double dose of mitaban dip and he upped the Ivermectin, plus continuing the hydroxyzine pills. She has diarrhea as we speak (i've fed her 4 tbls. of (real) canned pumpkin today). We are not giving up! She eats Nutro dry food for Sensitive Skin and Stomache and also boiled chicken with veggies (for breakfast). I read what Cindy had suggested - grain free. We'll start looking for food that is grain free. She is not a fan of raw..yet. She is 14 months old. Is she too old to start her on raw?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/everlastingbloom/mange.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/everlastingbloom/gingercoat.jpg

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..... I would really love to feed raw, but I wouldn't even know where to start. I tried reading up on it, but it only leaves me with more questions than answers......And how do I know how much food per dog to feed. If someone could send me a PM listing an ideal diet for the dogs, I would be forever grateful.....

1. The Honest Kitchen, which Leerburg sells, is a dehydrated raw diet which you rehydrate at mealtime, and they do have a grain-free version.

2. There are several suppliers of raw (frozen) that ship to you. One example is http://www.naturespet.com/barfpatties.html, but there are more. Google DOGS, FROZEN BARF.

3. This forum is just crammed with details about feeding raw. This thread
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4163143
goes from the decision by a forum member to try raw all the way through her successful launch and her dog's happy acceptance.

4. This web page answers every question imaginable about starting raw, from "How do I start?" to "Can I see a sample meal?" to "How much do I feed my dog?" Seriously, I am not exaggerating; anyone could go from kibble to 100% raw with nothing but this FAQ list.
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

Of course, you will want to read more; I'm just saying that these answers will lead you by the hand through every step. But all the "raw" threads you will find right here on this forum (using "search") give many URLs and book recommendations that really do start from Step 1.

5. The thread I pointed out in 3, above, includes info about grinding the raw for beginners or anyone nervous about bones, as well as info about the safest (not ground up) bones to choose at first, to watch your dog and determine whether he's a gulper, a chewer, an inhaler, or what.

6. You could get a pre-packaged no-grain raw at first to feed while you read about assembling it yourself, and you could choose The Honest Kitchen or one of the no-grain frozen ground patties to eliminate all worries about whole bones. Then you could read at your convenience until you felt confident.

7. I have had several dogs with allergies, including one with 33 (tested) severe allergies. I will always be grateful that she came to me and forced me to learn how to make dogfood. (I started with cooked and bone powder, way back when, out of fear of raw, but I know now that it wasn't necessary.) I'm grateful because now I have the ability to help severely allergic dogs and dogs with other nutrition-related ailments.

8. As you read and learn and get ready to prepare your own, feel free to PM me with questions.

9. Kato's symptoms don't really sound to me like allergies. Of course, your vet is the person to determine that. However, the switch to fresh food from kibble can support his entire immune system, IMHO.

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....And plus with the way Kato inhales food, how can I be sure he isn't going to kill himself trying to swallow half a chicken whole?......

As recently as six months ago, I was still using bone powder, eggshells, and the bones in canned fish for the "B" part of RMBs (carefully following the formula for phosphorous/calcium ratio). Also, my granddog, a working earth dog, broke a molar on a big raw bone and it cost a fortune to put a crown on it.

So I sympathize absolutely with people who are nervous about bones!

Now I feed the soft ones (necks and backs) and grind the others. I'm sure I am causing myself unnecessary trouble, but it eliminates my own fears about raw, so it's worth it. Baby steps are fine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are ways to persevere through every fear you may have about feeding fresh food to your dog.

OK, off my soapbox with one last comment: A dog can flourish on many nutritional plans. There are some excellent commercial products. We can all do our research and draw our own conclusions based on what we learn, and what we are personally able and willing to do.

IMO If I can go raw anyone can <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm like you worried about the bone thing as my dog gulped kibble, so I've started with it ground and he's only losing out on the chewing part, and he's eating the ground a lot more slower than his kibble. It's his 3rd day today and he loves it!!

Too old to start? No way. As you can see from my original post, it was back in July of this last year. I went back and forth for I don't know how long on starting raw. With help from Connie and some others, we made the switch. My oldest GSD is going to be 6 years old this June and we switched her too. It took the spoiled bitch almost 5 days to eat, but now she loves it. It is never too late to start. As far as Kato having demodex? That has been ruled out. Allergies? I am not so sure anymore. His face has greatly improved since we started raw, but we still do not know what it is. I am so tired of dealing with it. I am to the point of breaking down and having the skin biopsy done.

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....As you can see from my original post, it was back in July of this last year. I went back and forth for I don't know how long on starting raw......

Oh, gosh..........I'm truly brain-dead! I saw the new post and never noticed that the post it was replying to was six months old! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm really glad that Kato's muzzle thing is better since switching to raw, but sorry that it's not 100%.

Kato is a GSD, right? And the problem is confined to the muzzle skin only, aside from the one-time lump on his head?

I'm in the middle of a new book about dog and cat skin problems, so I thought I could be on the lookout for anything that sounds like it might apply to Kato's thing.

I'm not a health professional. You never know, though, what might ring a bell while you're reading new stuff!

Hi Connie. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We all have brain dead moments. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But to answer your questions... Yes, Kato is a GSD. His skin problem is mostly confined to the muzzle area, but he has a patch of it around his right eye too. The lump on the top of his head was thought to be started by an ingrown hair. But that was cleared up completely. He did have an ear infection back before the skin problem appeared and it was diagnosed as something pacadermititis? I am really beginning to think that his problem is related to yeast. I think this picture shows part of the problem.
Kato Muzzle It doesn't show the patch around his eye, but what do you think?

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.....I am really beginning to think that his problem is related to yeast. I think this picture shows part of the problem. .....

Nancy, I can't get that picture. I tried with two different browsers and just got as far as a main AOL page.

Because you mentioned yeast, I have a question: Can you smell yeast around his face? It's generally pretty distinctive. When bracheocephalic breeds get it in their facial folds, the yeast smell is noticeable. It's not particularly offensive, but it's there.

Another question: Didn't he have one ear infection? Was that yeast-related?

And last: You just switched to raw, right? He has zero commercial food, including treats? And no grains or soy? And is his face improving a lot or just somewhat?

I'm asking these things because of having had so much personal experience with dogs who've had skin itches. And you say the vet has given a definite "no" to demodex?

Hi Connie. As far as it smelling like yeast, I am not sure. He did have a funny smell to him before, but I don't smell it on him now. His ear infection was Malassezia pachydermatis. I did some checking on it and found this info.
"Abstract: This study confirmed that the immune system of allergic dogs recognizes a specific yeast as a contributor to allergies—that the dog’s body is mounting an allergic response to the yeast, not just reacting to a yeast infection. The yeast, Malassezia pachydermatis, is present in many dogs with skin allergies, causing itching, infection and sometimes licking to the point of self-mutilation. The most common symptoms of the yeast are ear canal infections and paw licking. Dogs with the yeast allergy can react to a quantity of yeast that would be considered within normal limits for healthy dogs. This discovery provides evidence and hope that it might be possible to manage that allergic reaction through the development of yeast-specific allergy shots, rather than relying on anti-fungal medications, which carry a possibility of side effects and don’t stop the allergic reaction from recurring."
So as of now, he is on completely raw. He is getting basically chicken for 7 days, then 2 days of chicken and beef heart, then 1 day of yougurt, cottage cheese, and pumpkin, and one day of fasting. No treats for him at this point. Too worried about the additives in them. I will PM you a picture of his face. Don't know why it did not work. Oh he is also on 1000 mg of fish oil and probiotics daily. I have been looking for a natural anti-fungal for him, but no luck as of yet. His face clears and then re-erupts a few days later. This has been going on since about 5 months of age, and he is now 14 months old. I am worried about sedation for the biopsy, but if we can label it, maybe it can be fixed. And yea, it is a definite no to demodex. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />