1. Steroids, and 2. desensitizing injections:

You have two issues here, or three if you count the antibiotics.

You and your vet probably have (or definitely should have) discussed all the long-term (and short-term) side effects of steroids. I acquired a dog already on Prednisone, and you don't stop steroids abruptly. And, in fact, in her case I would not have stopped them - period - until I had a better plan in place, because even on Prednisone she was agonizingly itchy. She was breaking her skin all over and digging into her ears (causing skin and ear infections) and generally in misery. Steroid use is something that you weigh carefully and decide whether the pros outweigh the cons. My vet and I both feel strongly about antibiotics overuse, too; of course we used them when there was infection present, and we used the whole regimen in each instance. I have never used antibiotics as a catchall just-in-case med, and I was assured that my vet agreed with that in our initial interview (many years ago!).

The desensitizing injections are a gradual and cumulative treatment, and immediate results are, I believe, either rare or nonexistent. When the vet says they're strong enough, s/he probably means that your dog is on the initial dosage amount, which is gradually increased as the animal builds up his tolerance. A graduated-dose desensitization program is necessary because the maintenance dose of antigen must be relatively large to work, but the maintenance dose would cause a severe reaction in an animal who had not gone through the stepped series of desensitizing injections. They're not a cure, per se; they are a supervised and gradual introduction of the antigens to the animal's system. It's a form of immuno-therapy.

P.S. I'm not a vet. I've studied everything I could find while I worked with my vet to get my dogs' allergies under control. But I'm not a vet.

I feel STRONGLY about doing my own research and then going to the vet with a written list of questions. It saves the vet's time and your own, and it also demonstrates to you how much your vet wants to work with you and whether your vet and you share the same general views.

Connie,
Steroids allows thousands of people yearly to lead more useful and productive life's ( steroid dependant asthmatics or people with Crone's disease, for instance ). Their usage also saves many lives in ER's across this country.
They're first line treatment in literally dozens of medical conditions. To totally dismiss their usage in cases that they could help is just silly.

All medications have a time and a place for their usage, you'd be wise to put your prejudice behind you with regards to steroids.

And steroids have been much more closely examined and have better quality control than any holistic medication - none of which can stand up to a rigorous scientific exam for efficacy.

The company that I bought my "Natural Steroid" from is called "Pet Health Pharmacy" I still needed a script for it.... It is called "Natural Hydrocortisone 20mg's(oil)... This is what it says on the bottle. I do have a phone number, but don't know if I should list it, so if anyone wants it you can PM me, they also have a website....

Connie, I can not emagine having a dog that has 33 items on their list, what a challenge. I would love to know more about what you cooked for yours. I have often thought about going with BARF, but I don't know where to begin, either that or I am to chicken....

When I started the injections, I followed the protocol the lab gave me (Nelco Lab) but found Denver would have good days and not so good days. I spoke with the vet through the lab, and was told to go back to where Denver was most comfortable, and then try to increase again from there. Yes the vet and I have talked about long term use of prednisone, but to be honest we see no other options. I have done the cut back and have gotten him down to 5 mgs, 2 x a day, but he always get "Bad" again. When I spoke with the vet through Nelco Labs, they told me that if the dog is on prednisone, it takes longer for the shots to have some effect. We have been going at this for a year now, and from what I understand this is not uncommon.

Like you Connie, once finding out what Denvers allergies were I studied as much as possible, and talked with a number of vets. I also have to use antibodics on occations, but that mostly during the summer months. Like yours even on the prednisone Denver still itches, it just a matter of how much itch can one handle. This boy of mine is truly magnificate, we couldn't ask for a better boy, and to think he is a rescue. But I now understand "Why" he is a rescue. Someone took the time to do ALOT of training, in German even, and he knows bite work... This was all new to me, just on a whim I talked with someone that teaches Schutzhund (which I know nothing about) and when Denver heard the whip and saw the sleeve he was all business. I now believe that who ever had him didn't care to spend the monies to save him, so they just tied him up outside a shelter in Long Island. Denver and I go to training every Sunday, even if he never does anything with what he already know, he has a ball doing it...

Steroid Prejudice: I know. I have steroid shots myself into several joints on a regular basis. Among other joint and muscle diseases, I'm a polio survivor with post-polio syndrome, and without the steroid shots I'd be extremely handicapped.

I thought I was expressing myself better than I was. Steroids have many side effects, but they are also a magic bullet when the body has gone awry.

I believe that they are overused. I certainly do NOT believe that people and animals who need them shouldn't have them -- Crohn's disease is a perfect example. My own case is another one.

Maybe my belief that they are overused has turned into a prejudice; I'll have to think about that. I know I have turned passionate beliefs in that past into knee-jerk closed-mindedness, but thought I had outgrown it. LOL!

Steroid Prejudice: QUOTE: You and your vet probably have (or definitely should have) discussed all the long-term (and short-term) side effects of steroids. I acquired a dog already on Prednisone, and you don't stop steroids abruptly. And, in fact, in her case I would not have stopped them - period - until I had a better plan in place, because even on Prednisone she was agonizingly itchy. She was breaking her skin all over and digging into her ears (causing skin and ear infections) and generally in misery. Steroid use is something that you weigh carefully and decide whether the pros outweigh the cons. END

Yeah, I guess it sounds a little like a prejudice, but it certainly wasn't meant to!

We have tried every available method for controlling his allergies but nothing worked well & dexamethasone (steroid) has lost it's punch.

I have started a raw diet approx. 3 wks ago & have only dosed him with steroids on 2 days that he was in distress. I hope he keeps improving so he will be 100% cured. ( I mean controlled)

I have a sneaking suspicion that there were other things that he is allergic to in dry food that he wasn't tested for.

thanks for all advice & opinions.

Kay, you've gone through as much as (and more than) I have.

I too had to keep Luna on steroids for years; it was that or allow her to be in misery. The vet and I worked with the dosage and kept it as low as possible, but not until I totally revamped her diet (including every bite of treat) and had her on the injections for months were we able to stop them.

And I believe that she too was given up because of the allergies. She was already deaf (multiple infections having closed the ear canals over the years), and although the Prednisone wasn't very expensive, the infections she was causing with the scratching WERE.

I know she was cared for; I found out accidentally that she had been taught sign commands, for example. I think her previous owners just didn't have the resources to continue with treating her. (Neither did I, really, but that's how it goes sometimes..............)

Will mentioned that most alternative "meds" have little or no quality control, and that's a huge consideration. When I tried two different herbs, it was only after a lot of reading and consultation and EXTREMELY careful research into the supplier. As it was, though, the two I thought were safe to try didn't do any good that I could see. (I myself would probably question something called "Natural Steroid" with no other content details, but maybe your vet knows the product and I should mind my own business....LOL!)

Oh, and 10 mg. total per day was as low as we ever got Luna, too, until she finally showed positive response from the injections.

My personal opinion is that you're doing what you can do: You're weighing each option and doing your best. That's all we have -- our best!

Have any of you considered Atopica? It is a relativley new drug on the market, but looks extremely promising for the control of Atopy. It is a modified Cylcosporine capsule, which means NO STERIODS!! We have had a few seminars on it, and have recently put a few dogs on it as well..

http://www.us.atopica.com/index.shtml

It might be something you should ask your veterinarian about. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No but will check into it

Thank You

Did you have the blood panel done and get a list back from the lab of his allergies? Despite the several hundred dollars that it cost me (I mean including the injection stuff), I wished after we did it that we had done it earlier. Finally, I had a starting place for her diet! With 33 allergies, I never found a prepared food that didn't contain at least one of her allergens, but it was pretty easy to get instructions for a good homemade food.

QUOTE: I hope he keeps improving so he will be 100% cured. ( I mean controlled) END QUOTE

LOL! Yep, a measure of control is all we can hope for, I think.

I am really glad this thread got started. Seems we can all learn a lot from each other on this issue (like all issues). Even when we just quote our vets, that means we can give each other wisdom/advice from varied sources.

I'd like to hear about the progress made by these allergic guys. Both my allergic dogs died in November (after long lives!) and my young dog has no allergies, but after all those years, it's a subject I'm very interested in.