Well, I live in a center of hunting dog training for the plantations ( plantation hunting is the number one agricultural dollar producer in my county, it's really big here ) and I've trained along side many of the top retrieving trainers in this country. We have held the AKC Field Trials in my town several times.
To a man they don't think that working dogs are capable of good bird retrieving, and from what I've seen, I can't disagree with them.

Sporting dogs are genetically bred for "soft mouths" for bird retrieval, working dogs aren't.
And when a GSD is the equal to a lab with 2k of training, someone needs to get a refund.

The advice the others have given is great. There may be GSD's out there who would turn into excellent hunting dogs, but in the end genetics rule, and a dog bred for hunting might make you a lot happier.

If you want a dog that can hunt, but can also do some of the general things that a GSD can do, you might look into some German Shorthaired Pointers or Airedale Terriors.

I know the GSP's from more traditional German lines are bred to do a variety of different hunting jobs -birds and boar or fox- and other jobs (read a book from a few years back where some were used for protection, but I wouldn't recommend trying it!).

The other option could be an Airedale. I know there is a movement to use them for hunting and there are still some who use them for protection work as well. I met a person a year or so ago who had done Schutzhund with Airedales and was now training a young dog for bird hunting.

GSD's are wonderful, but if hunting is the most important point you might explore some other options. With any breed you decide, pick the breeder who is breeding dogs that actually work and do what you want them for!

good luck,

Alan...

"Sporting dogs are genetically bred for "soft mouths" for bird retrieval, working dogs aren't."

That is true but I think because they are not bred for retrieving birds, they don't like to pick up birds with feather and so he hold them very soft, now when he bite the sleeve then he is in a different mode. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I was just comparing my dog to a $2000.00 very rusty poor handling dog that only get to work when hunting season start, he does not train everyday like I do with my dog, I'm sure my dog is no match comparing to a serious hunting dog/handler team.

Thank you all for your advice. It definitely has me thinking. The reason I am looking at a GSD over a retriever is that I want a dog that is more loyal than labs or goldens. They love everyone they meet. I don't really like pointers that much. The only other option is a Chesapeake Bay retriever, but they do not do very well in the house. It’s frustrating.

The dogs main job will be being a great companion and friend, its secondary job would be hunting. I know a lot of hunters that will give away a dog if it is not the best in the field and I don’t like that at all. Now I’m worried that if the dog doesn’t like hunting, I won’t have a job for him to do. No mater what dog I get it will go everywhere with me, my friends always know that if they invite me anywhere the dog is coming too, but will a GSD be happy just being a companion? Also, I swim at the lake about 4 days per week, GSD’s like swimming right?

I guess I’ll just keep looking into it and keep an opened mind.

Philip Wassel

Don't overlook the Chessie. I have worked several in schutzhund and hunted over a couple. One of my favorite dogs of all time was my hunting partners Chessie.
A great dog no matter the breed.
The dog would have done very respectable work on the schutzhund field and was one of the toughest, hardest workign retrievers I ever saw. When you see a dog holding a live Goose swimming back accross the Rio Grande dodging ice chunks in february after hunting for 15 minutes for the damned goose you wounded it provides some deep respect.

Well, I'm no hunter, but I've got to put in a slug for 'Field bred' English Springer spaniels. (and never in my life did I think I'd like a spaniel!)

I worked one as a narc dog. Drive through the roof! Did not stop for nothing and what a nose! Nice dog too, good temperament and fearless. Smart as well, rarely had to show him something twice.

Like GSD's you've got your working (field-bred) and show lines. Their medium size are good for getting around thick fields. And they love the water!

As far as loyalty, well, they are hunting dogs and a bit more independent. Happiest 300 yards away from you and lost in the world of their nose!

Kevin , you are right about Chessies . I have dealt with less then a dozen of them and most were very tough dogs .

We had a Chessie/lab mix as a drug dog . He found alot of dope in his time . His handler took a promotion so on the end of there last day on the job I hid off a path in a bitesuit and jumped out from behind a tree yelling and charging at the dog and handler(all planned out in advance). The handler sent the dog off leash from about 30ft away and the dog hit me like a frieght train and had no problem engaging . The dog had never done any aggression work prior to that but you would never know it . He did have some foundational tracking . There is no doubt in my mind that dog would have made a great patrol dog .

Philip, others may disagree with me but I think hunting breeds are almost as loyal as GSD's . A very high drive confident dog is mainly out for themselves . If there handler won't do something that satisfies them they will look to someone else. I think if you take a confident GSD and only do hunting/companion work you may get the same type of behavior as some hunting dogs you have seen .

My last hunting dog would ditch me in a minute if there was something in it for him . He sometimes stayed in other hunters duck blinds if my shooting was bad . He knew where he could do the most retrieving . My 1st GSD Patrol Dog was a one person dog but my current GSD reminds me of my last hunting dog . He will pay attention to anyone he is familiar with as long as they will play fetch with him . If you aren't willing to play with him he doesn't have the time of day for anyone , including me .

The mystique about GSD's being ultra loyal one person dogs is kind of overblown . We have successfully transferred over GSD and other Patrol dog breeds that have had previous handlers many times . Once the dog gets over the initial suspicion of the new handler and learns the new handler is now the main source of food and drive fulfillment for them they soon forget about there previous handler .

I have come to a point of totally ignoring the breeds. For most dogs, breed difference is just skin deep. Ppl label a dog a breed as a merchant labels a product to sell. The most important thing is look into a dog as individual without bias. Look at its parents' characters. I believe you can teach any driven dog do about any thing.

I used to hunt boar with friend's a pack of dogs. mainly dogos, but guess what, the leader is a gsd, who is balck and red SV looking gsd, flat back though. Its parents are police dogs. Maybe his owner favors him the most so he becomes the leader or vice versa. The owner just treated him like another hunting dog and he became the best among a pack of pro hunts. I used to have a female gsd who hunts so well on her own in a place I'm not supposed to let her hunt that I have to get rid of her. And I'm sure there are some hunting dogs can do respectable job in schH if raised for this purpose.

What I'm trying to say is most breed difference is so superficial, of course not all. But if ppl only care about function and nothing else, there wouldn't be so many breeds. They would only differentiate them as a big game dog, a small game dog, a fighting dog, a herding dog, etc.

Breed difference exists to some extent, but still it's the individual's drive that makes the difference to you.

Philip wrote;
" No mater what dog I get it will go everywhere with me, my friends always know that if they invite me anywhere the dog is coming too, but will a GSD be happy just being a companion? Also, I swim at the lake about 4 days per week, GSD’s like swimming right? "

Philip,
If you buy a working line GSD with good drives it will usually always need something to do , being a companion dog only will usually not be enough . They have a lot of energy to burn off . Most working line GSD's I've seen like swimming and retreiving . My current GSD marks and retreives in the water better then most Labs I've worked with . He will even dive under water for the retreiving dummy . He would need a lot of work to be an even marginal bird hunting dog though .

Shon ,
No doubt a person can do many things with a dog with high drives. Your chances of being successful in any dog related field are higher though if you use a dog specifically bred for that purpose and you more than likely won't have to put in as much work to get the dog to a higher level if you use a dog bred for that work .