Jeff, I do agree with you that a prong is not the first thing to jump to when you don't quite understand all the aspects of training yet. I was trying to clarify your statements further to help her with her specific issue. I also agree that with holding food is passive dominance and can do wonders IF you understand completely how to use it.

Quote by Jeff:Look the point I was trying to make was at 5 months with an insecure dog you don't need a pinch collar. Also, I was not trying to use it as punishment. If you go back and look she was using eye contact to stare down her dog. Using social pressure to bully your dog shows me that you don't understand what you are doing quite yet. Dogs do understand that you are the one that brings them their food. Not feeding them when they are being buttheads is not punishment, but a passive form of dominence.

You are right, I do not understand how to deal with insecure dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I didn't mean for this post to get people fired up at each other I am just looking to learn. I didn't even know I was being a bully to him. I think I was just trying to reinforce my role as the leader. I feel like a real schmuck now, but seriously, thank you for bringing it to my attention. I have fairly tough skin, and am open to re-training myself with your help. Anyone who is willing to tell me what I'm doing wrong, and by the sound of it there's still a heck of a lot I need to learn, I am listening!!!!

You know, when I re-read some of my posts I sound like such a snotty panty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I was actually trying to be emphatic. Probably didn't work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jeff,
You didn't sound snotty at all- you sounded honest and straight-forward. I like that.
Unlike many folks I prefer pearls of wisdom rather than sugar-coated turds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Stacy