Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: Angela Washburn ]
#85515 - 09/29/2005 07:08 PM |
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ok, but what about a dog you want to use as a therapy dog? what about when you live in town on a street busy with children of all ages running around? what about the fact that people are often idiots around dogs they don't know?
isn't it better to have a dog that is reliable in all such circumstances than one who might unpredictably "pop off" if the stranger does something stupid?
i've never had any problem getting full protection when called for from a dog who loves to be petted by strangers. most sound dogs, i think, have enough common sense to tell when someone is a threat and take appropriate action, without you planning for this eventuality at all times.
i am a bit alarmed at the number of people who say they won't let strangers touch their dog because the dog could bite them. shouldn't good training/socialization produce a dog who is reliable enough to be put in just about any situation without becoming dangerous?
working Mastiff |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85516 - 09/29/2005 08:34 PM |
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Alice:
"i've never had any problem getting full protection when called for from a dog who loves to be petted by strangers."
Ok, I'll bite on a statement like that. Have you actually been the victim of a serious personal attack where you were assaulted by an attacker with the intent of serious body harm and your dog stopped that attack?
And by "serious attack" I mean to the degree that a police report was filed.
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85517 - 09/29/2005 08:45 PM |
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shouldn't good training/socialization produce a dog who is reliable enough to be put in just about any situation without becoming dangerous?
Does that mean a total stranger can come up to you and start scritching your head and chest and you won't punch the living daylights out of them? That you'll sit politely, waiting for them to finish, maybe even ask for more scritches?
The more I've read and thought about everything posted here and applied to real life, the more I've realized that serious working dogs are just that- WORKING dogs. They don't need to be loved on by everyone like a pet golden stuck in a perpetual state of "puppy." My job takes me to homes of strangers all the time, and oftentimes they have dogs. I always acknowledge the dogs, but usually with a happy verbal greeting and never a pet unless the owner gives me permission (and even then I use my discretion going by the dog's body language, opting for just a small scritch if anything at all).
There really is no reason to let a stranger pet a dog. Some people think they know dogs, but in reality they know either nothing or have misconceptions up the wazoo. This could drive a dog that is serious about pack drives to bite, and in turn that dog will look at the owner, thinking "jeez man, you're my LEADER! You couldn't keep that jerk off of me? Sheesh! I'll remember THAT one.."
Read the forums more, Alice, and especially read info on pack drives, rank drive, pack instincts, and what all of these dogs do for a living. Eventually, you'll understand why people are leery of having others pet their dogs. When I get one, I know I'll be having a hands-off policy!
(oh boy, I do hope I didn't ramble in all of that..)
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: Diana Matusik ]
#85518 - 09/29/2005 09:14 PM |
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What is the petting policy when it comes to children? Do you all allow your dogs to be touched by children and not adults or is it hands off to everyone? I'm just curious since children are drawn to dogs and most parents don't teach them how to behave around them.
Amanda
Mom of 3 kids, 6 dogs, 1 cat
Agility competitor, used to rehab small breeds |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85519 - 09/29/2005 09:16 PM |
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Living in Orlando I've got my extended family, friends and my wife's family and friends coming to visit all the time. So I am very happy that my PPD is quite friendly, stable and social. So yes, he gets lots of attention.
But I always warn all of them that he is not a dog to screw around with. One of my friends thought it would be cool one time to suddenly make a "monster" type sound directed at my dog. My dog's growl actually sent chills up MY spine. He didn't do anything; he just warned him and if you could have heard that growl you'd understand why my idiot friend has never, ever done anything like that again.
I've had a couple of working dog friends sit on the couch for a while with a hidden sleeve and just converse normally while watching a ball game. An hour later one of them pretended to lose his temper and attack me. My dog responded appropriately and was on him and on him hard immediately. Now, if he hadn't responded appropriately we would have trained it.
The socialization has not, apparently, diminished my dog's ability to respond to an attack on me. I think it's ok for a dog to be social, but you also need to train.
Patrick Murray |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85520 - 09/29/2005 09:33 PM |
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Allright! This stupid topic has cropped it's boring head up again!
All dogs and dog owners are different. If you can't read dogs well enough to know what they are like in social situations then sell the dog, you are to silly to have one. I would hope that if you got a fairly serious dog that the issue of having it be a therapy dog would never come up.
I think since really serious dogs are made more than born, that most dogs can deal with people petting them. If you are in a place where some idiot goes woof into your dogs face, let him get bitten. O.K. maybe not, but I really wanted to say that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
This is such a crappy topic. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
If you are at a dog show you should know that people that go along with the whole "Look how pretty fluffy is" mentality, are basically too dumb to be around your dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#85521 - 09/29/2005 09:52 PM |
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Alice:
"i've never had any problem getting full protection when called for from a dog who loves to be petted by strangers."
Ok, I'll bite on a statement like that. Have you actually been the victim of a serious personal attack where you were assaulted by an attacker with the intent of serious body harm and your dog stopped that attack?
And by "serious attack" I mean to the degree that a police report was filed.
the only times i have had incidents that needed to be reported to the police is when i haven't had a dog with me. but i can think of several times over the past 40-odd years that my dog has averted a situation that threatened to become violent.
mastiffs don't need to do much. they simply knock people out of the way, or knock them down and sit on them, or take them by the sleeve and pull, or trip them, or get in between their owners and the threat. i do have personal experience with those situations.
i had an intruder in my apartment who just about wet his pants when my mastiff snuck up behind him, took him by the sleeve and pulled him back away from me. he was gone in a hurry. i've had my dog lunge through the air to knock an attacker out of the way. in one situation, i could have been raped (long story, way out in the backcountry). the guy decided he didn't want to mess with my dog. he had his hand raised to me and the dog went through the air so fast to knock him out of the way, it made both our heads spin.
there was no need for actual growling, snarling, biting. these dogs were perceptive about the situation and did the minimum necessary to get the job done, without aggression. that's what they are bred for, to lie around, use good judgement, think for themselves, and take very swift action when they deem it necessary.
most people don't want to mess with a powerful animal that probably outweighs them. my one fear was that someone would have a gun and use it on the dog. luckily that has never happened.
but a gun would shoot a trained protection dog, that has not been allowed to socialize with strangers, just as dead.
working Mastiff |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85522 - 09/29/2005 10:11 PM |
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"mastiffs don't need to do much."
That part I believe. I raised and showed Old English Mastiff's for ten years and won a Mastiff national specialty OB trial once. I was in Front & Finish a lot back in those days as they're not a common OB breed. I even tried schH with one ( a total failure )
But I never, despite having been around *hundreds* of them, met one that was capable of depending their owner.
If yours did what you said it did, it was the only one on the planet that has prevented an attack on it's owner other than appearance. I've never even heard of one making contact with a determined attacker, much less doing what you report that yours did.
You'll just have to pardon my lack of believe there...
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85523 - 09/29/2005 10:13 PM |
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several of you posted while i was still composing my answer to will (i was interrupted a lot so it took a long while to finish writing it).
i admit i am new to the idea of 'working' dog as it is understood here on these forums, and have a lot to learn. i continue to learn more every day looking through the many pages here. thanks for your patience with a newbie.
the only experience i've had with dogs trained in protection work, these dogs struck me as very dangerous animals that would kill if their owner wasn't there to stop them. i mean no offense by this, but i very frankly do not understand why someone would want to own such an animal. it's like having a loaded gun lying around all the time.
i'd feel safer with the gun.
like i said, i do have a lot to learn, and this concept of "pet' v. "working" is new to me and i will learn more.
working Mastiff |
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Re: Strangers Petting Your dog....
[Re: alice oliver ]
#85524 - 09/29/2005 10:19 PM |
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"but a gun would shoot a trained protection dog, that has not been allowed to socialize with strangers, just as dead."
Really? Have you ever tried to hit a medium sized moving object at 25 miles an hour headed straight at you when your adrenaline was pumping?
Sorry, that's as foolish a statement as the classic "I'll just shoot the gun out of the bad guys hand".
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