Why not work first with one dog at a time on the recall?

 Quote: andrew harris

http://youtu.be/dotZ5T_jfGI I know its its only short but an illustration of the improved recall I have since employing the new training techniques I have been shown.Note where there are people in the background,which normally have my lot bounding off towards them I am now able to recall easily and tho the video does not show the dogs that were with the strangers they were there and still the dogs listened and remained in close proximatey to me and you will notice I focus most of my attention on the young female who previously would have just shot off and not come back until she decided to .Things are not perfect yet but I think there is an improvement in recall and they no longer bound off to meet strangers and their dogs but remain with me.Infact they seem not to want to go off away from me as they used to do.

Why not just use a leash when out in public?

Could you explain these "new techniques"?
You said you "think there is an improvement". If your still working on the recall then they shouldn't be off lead. Your only re enforcing the fact that they don't have to come each time they refuse. I see no reward when they do come. At this time that should be happening.
No rewards, no corrections. I really would like to hear about your "new techniques".
As Connie mentioned why not train one dog at a time?

 Quote: Greg Meyer

 Quote: andrew harris

http://youtu.be/dotZ5T_jfGI I know its its only short but an illustration of the improved recall I have since employing the new training techniques I have been shown.Note where there are people in the background,which normally have my lot bounding off towards them I am now able to recall easily and tho the video does not show the dogs that were with the strangers they were there and still the dogs listened and remained in close proximatey to me and you will notice I focus most of my attention on the young female who previously would have just shot off and not come back until she decided to .Things are not perfect yet but I think there is an improvement in recall and they no longer bound off to meet strangers and their dogs but remain with me.Infact they seem not to want to go off away from me as they used to do.

Why not just use a leash when out in public?

Or a Howda and some poop bags?

 Quote: steve strom

 Quote: Greg Meyer

 Quote: andrew harris

http://youtu.be/dotZ5T_jfGI I know its its only short but an illustration of the improved recall I have since employing the new training techniques I have been shown.Note where there are people in the background,which normally have my lot bounding off towards them I am now able to recall easily and tho the video does not show the dogs that were with the strangers they were there and still the dogs listened and remained in close proximatey to me and you will notice I focus most of my attention on the young female who previously would have just shot off and not come back until she decided to .Things are not perfect yet but I think there is an improvement in recall and they no longer bound off to meet strangers and their dogs but remain with me.Infact they seem not to want to go off away from me as they used to do.

Why not just use a leash when out in public?

Or a Howda and some poop bags?

Of course I have poop bags and cleaned up after I stopped filming I only have one pair of hands lol.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Could you explain these "new techniques"?
You said you "think there is an improvement". If your still working on the recall then they shouldn't be off lead. Your only re enforcing the fact that they don't have to come each time they refuse. I see no reward when they do come. At this time that should be happening.
No rewards, no corrections. I really would like to hear about your "new techniques".
As Connie mentioned why not train one dog at a time?

May be you are watching something different but I reward verbally "good boy/girl" may be your audio not working.Rewards do not always have to be food based and I reward in a way that does not cause too much excitement.I see no time during this short clip where there is a refusal to come when asked,infact I say come only once and the dog recalls immediately first recall at about 26 seconds and the dog abot turns straight away and is rewarded with a "good boy".Corrections? they are there if you watch carefully I suppose the most obvious correction is 5 mins tho you can't see it is obviously a correction the dog's reaction should tell you that.
I know improvement is still needed and I do train the dogs individually especially the young female as you notice in the clip I single her out alot.That being said ,to me I have noticed the difference as you can hear and see there are other people and dogs close by and I do not allow any of my dogs to approach them and stop them when they try to do so .Perhaps my corrections may not seem strong enough but they are at a level suited to the enviroment and situation and stronger corrections will have more effect when used in different situations that require them.This is not a demo vid of obedience merely an opprtunity taken but not one that was pre planned and my aim was to keep the dogs close to me and not ,as previously would have been the case,to allow them to go off and greet other people and thier dogs that happened to be close by and in ear shot.

"I reward in a way that does not cause too much excitement."


Or too much attention at all.

The sit that you ask for at 2:32 ..... at 3:02 the dog sat. Was that related in any way to your command? It didn't seem to be ..... half a minute later.

I believe really strongly that if you worked with one dog at a time and had that one dog engaged with you, your commands might turn into something more effective than the background noise they seem to be so often now.

Like Bob, I also don't see anything even close to a recall that justifies having the pack off-leash. Every time they blow you off, you have once again reinforced that it's their choice and not yours. Do you see what I'm saying? If you cannot reinforce that recall (such as with a long line), then don't give it. (And along with that, I would have thought it went without saying that dogs with an unreliable recall are on a line.)

What are the new methods you mentioned?

Like the sit half a minute later. Half a minute is a very long time for a dog not to respond to a command.

You guys missed the "sit" that the dog completely blew off at about 50secs.

I gotta admit, the obedience isn't there and that's an accident waiting to happen but I like watching these dogs. Handsome beasts who seem to be having a lot of fun.

It's become apparent by now that you refuse to put your pack on leashes. E-collars are banned where you are right? Long lines of the check lead type used by hunters would allow your dogs freedom of movement while they would still come to understand that commands need to be obeyed every time. Give them a bit of time to get used to moving around with them and they won't tangle very often. I'd normally suggest clothesline type line but I think your dogs are a bit too heavy for that.

I'm going to apologize up front if I am out of line but I have to put this out there.

While it's encouraging to see you try to improve your and your dogs' obedience skills, Andrew, I think you are truly missing one very important point.

From the perspective of someone who tries to follow the rules/laws and be a responsible, courteous dog owner, folks like you who think the rules of common courtesy don't apply to you are our worst nightmare when on the trails, paths, or streets, regardless of how friendly or under control you think your dogs are.

I can't begin to count the number of peaceful walks and entire days with my dogs that have been ruined because I had to fend off a loose approaching dog or at least change my route to avoid some selfish person letting their dogs run unleashed, not knowing if this is going to work out OK or result in still another attack from a loose dog. If everyone followed the rules and walked their dogs on a leash when in public where there is a chance of encountering some else, we wouldn't have this anxiety to deal with. While I think it's admirable that you have this self-perceived "dog whisperer" bond with your animals, that's no consolation to those of us who simply want to enjoy a peaceful walk somewhere. If your recall isn't 100% dead perfect, you have no way of correcting your dog unless you're on an e-collar. Better yet, whether you have a strong recall or not wouldn't be a factor if your dogs were on leashes. Use the recall for shaping behavior on your own property, not to show other people trying to enjoy walks with their dogs how wonderful of a bond you have with your dogs.

That said, I don't mean to slam anyone who lets their dogs run free walking in the woods or out in the open somewhere. I do it, too. However, if there comes even the slightest chance I will encounter someone or another dog, the leash goes back on. I don't want to have to depend on my recall, no matter how strong, as the only means to control my dog. I don't want to put the other people in a position of not knowing what is going to happen with my dog. You should do the same.

 Quote: Greg Meyer

I'm going to apologize up front if I am out of line but I have to put this out there.

While it's encouraging to see you try to improve your and your dogs' obedience skills, Andrew, I think you are truly missing one very important point.

From the perspective of someone who tries to follow the rules/laws and be a responsible, courteous dog owner, folks like you who think the rules of common courtesy don't apply to you are our worst nightmare when on the trails, paths, or streets, regardless of how friendly or under control you think your dogs are.

I can't begin to count the number of peaceful walks and entire days with my dogs that have been ruined because I had to fend off a loose approaching dog or at least change my route to avoid some selfish person letting their dogs run unleashed, not knowing if this is going to work out OK or result in still another attack from a loose dog. If everyone followed the rules and walked their dogs on a leash when in public where there is a chance of encountering some else, we wouldn't have this anxiety to deal with. While I think it's admirable that you have this self-perceived "dog whisperer" bond with your animals, that's no consolation to those of us who simply want to enjoy a peaceful walk somewhere. If your recall isn't 100% dead perfect, you have no way of correcting your dog unless you're on an e-collar. Better yet, whether you have a strong recall or not wouldn't be a factor if your dogs were on leashes. Use the recall for shaping behavior on your own property, not to show other people trying to enjoy walks with their dogs how wonderful of a bond you have with your dogs.

That said, I don't mean to slam anyone who lets their dogs run free walking in the woods or out in the open somewhere. I do it, too. However, if there comes even the slightest chance I will encounter someone or another dog, the leash goes back on. I don't want to have to depend on my recall, no matter how strong, as the only means to control my dog. I don't want to put the other people in a position of not knowing what is going to happen with my dog. You should do the same.

Greg I pretty much agree with everything you are saying and am am still working to achieve the things you mention.The area where the video is taken is a place where most dogs are offleash as you may see and hear other people and dogs in the video.Whilst I accept more improvement is required I believe there has been alot of improvement based on previous clips I have posted.You will note that in this video the eagerness of members of my pack to just shoot off to go and greet and investigate other walkers and their dogs I do not allow them to do so
http://youtu.be/dotZ5T_jfGI

if you look at the way things happened just over 6 months ago in the video below you will see how things used to be due to my lack of control and respect for others even if their dogs are offleash too:Below is what would have happened previously and I no longer allow ever and will leash them if necessary as they now come when called which they did not before

http://youtu.be/yWObAwJo_fU.

It is the exception rather than the rule where th dogs are allowed to roam freely and it is more normal for them to b walked on leash;
http://youtu.be/lT7npxin6WA

and tho it could be disagreed with th fact that although they are leashed there are too many to walk at once,I have nevr had a problem controling them whatever they are confronted with be it n offleash dog snarling and growling at th pack,this is quite common or just a cat :

http://youtu.be/5cgd7cdHXY4
I have never been pulled along or had to hang on for dear life no matter what the dogs are confronted with i just simly continue walking them around the situation or reverse my course.

I was once presented with a hyperthetical senrio on here as to what if a dog on an extended leash lauched an attack on my dogs,well having chance to think about this I would say the thing I would do would be to igniore my dogs and deal only with the attacking dog,I am used to handling 12 stone dogs so grabbing one agressive dog and pinning it down or doing whatever i had to to stop it attacking one of my dogs even if meant hurting the other dog I would do knowing what would happen if i left the situation to my dogs to sort out.My dogs would not assist me as I have been in his sort of situation whith the AB I had at my home for a period of time that is not to say having the dogs with me gives me more confidence if I have to man handle an agressive dog myself which obviously translates to the dog being man handled .Still in over 20 years nothing like this has ever happened thankfully and most dogs that often charge my dogs while i am walking them on leash do so out of fear a