Quote It is MY reponsibility to train and socialize MY dogs to know they are safe around other dogs and look to me when another dog comes in the area. Quote

I'm confused. How can your dogs look to you for confirmation of whether a strange dog is safe when it's just that, a strange dog? Depending on the area I travel to, there are loose and leashed dogs. It's the area where there are loose dogs that are the most problematic. There is a "safety in numbers" thing that might be working for you. I don't know dog psychology but I would guess a loose dog would be less inclined to race up to three dogs travelling together. Secondly, my dog is completely socialized - in fact loves other dogs too much in my opinion. For some odd reason, my dog gets snarled and growled at by about 30% to 40% of the dogs we come in contact with! He's only 12 months but this has been happening since he was 4 months. In my opinion he does nothing to warrant their aggression. He's just strolling along with me, he never makes a move first to go see ANY of these dogs. They come up to him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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Not sure why everyone just says every loose dog they see is 'bad' and needs to have the crap kicked out of it if it runs over to say hey. The dog may be rude, it should NOT be unattended by a human, but it doesn't mean OH MY GOSH I HAVE TO PANIC BECAUSE EVERY LOOSE DOG IS GOING TO KILL MY DOG. If I am calm and in control and pay attention, NOT overreacting, we just move on. Quote

I'm confused here too because my experience has shown that of all the people who travel in public with their dogs off leash, maybe 10% of them at the most actually have real control over that dog. That leaves 90% of the loose dogs and their owners to be rude, uninformed and out of control. It is this foundation from which I have to work to protect my dog 90% of the time.

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Course for those who keep their dogs isolated from other dogs, can not trust THEIR dogs with others, and are not familiar with being able to look at the oncoming dog and gauge it's body language and behavior, I can see why panic and fighting back may be the only resort. Quote

My dog has never been isolated. From 8 weeks till today he goes out in public with me every day, bar none. I COMPLETELY trust my dog. It's the others I don't know. In my opinion I am taking a huge chance in allowing charging dogs to get to my dog and allow an interaction. I prefer not to allow my dog to suffer the consequences of my casualness.

It would seem your way has worked for you and kudos to you for that. It's just not how I want to approach the issue of my dog's safety.

Jenn,
You say you are familiar enough with dog body-language to be able to read the intentions of loose dogs. I hope for your dogs' sake that you really can.
Even if you can read the intentions of loose dogs that run at your dogs, what would you do if the loose dogs had bad intentions if you have no way at all to drive off the loose dogs?
Apparently you have never been rushed by an aggressive dog, or dogs, when walking your own dogs. Lucky for them because it does sound to me as if you are totally unprepared to protect your dogs if you were charged.

hmm... My female is usually with me off leash since she's 100% on recall and obedience.. Oh yeah.. not to mention the e-collar.. (for emergencies).. I haven't given her a correction in over 2 months...When I see loose dogs and she's off leash (btw she's very friendly and would love to play with every dog she meets)I'd have her down stay behind me. And I ask Mr "Egoist" please call your dog.. and so far only 2 (READ 2) persons had off leash recall in presence of a distraction.

Quick LONG story.. around a month ago I was walking my bitch (on e-collar) as usual and I see this guy with his dog. He purposefully unleashes his pit bull. I put Jinny in a downstay and began walking towards him.. As I got nearer I could hear him saying stuff like (attack and bite) (real stupid person.) I new that his dog wouldn't bite me (I know for a fact that the majority of dog owners here raise their dogs as pets or as (dog fighters). By the time I got to him he pretend to be quiet. I asked him to leash his dog.. he said that he didn't want to... I told him then.. to make sure that his dog doesn't come near my dog.. and I returned.. As you can guess, once his pit saw my dog she came running and growling.. I'm glad I had my pistol.. I gave 2 rounds (straight at the dog) Hehehe with sparks and fire.. She ran off whining and tail between her legs.. You should have seen the look on the guy's face.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I didn't have to say a single word. Ok just (FUSS) and walked away..

I should mention that Jinny had been bitten once before.. I'm only pissed that I wasn't able to do anything then.. I actually got bit in my leg by the other bitch while trying to get between them as she charged my dog.. The sound of Jinny screaming is a sound I would never risk hearing again.. Not to mention to the puncture wounds on her neck.. Anyone who goes through the experience of having their dog bitten knows what I'm talking about..

Jenn,
I do not carry a weapon, am considering a walking stick, but I do keep my dogs leash, with prong collar attached, in my hands, to swing if needed. My dog is very well socialized, very good recall, not at all aggressive, but some dogs like to get in his face. I am always very close by so that I can jump in, and I also, like other posters, put him in a down stay in the presence of a strange dog.

In my area, I know quite a few people whose friendly, social dogs have been bitten, and owners who have also been bitten defending their dogs, several requiring stiches. Just in the last few weeks, a very sweet friendly 2 yo lab mix was bitten, and required stiches, and a border collie bit a 5 mo GSD pup, requiring stitches. The list goes on. In one example last fall, a man was sitting quietly on a park bench with his two older Rotties, when a pit jumped on one Rottie, bit him, and bit my friend when he intervened. The truth is that some owners are absolutely blind to their dogs lousy behavior. So, in short, I understand why people are very defensive of their dogs.
polly

Jenn, I will say I would have agreed with you until just 10 minutes ago. I was walking my girl, like I have been for the past 7 months (she is almost 3 and I got her at 2 years old) and even though I understood Judy's previous situations, I was able to handle most loose dogs with a loud "no" and they would not come close at all. This (I knew I would jinx myslelf if I talked about it) happened a few doors down, which in our neighborhood is less than a quarter mile but still some distance, a black lab came running out of the garage and with teeth showing an barking and growling at my girl and he was a big boy. He wanted a part of her like I haven't seen in a dog before. I kept yelling "no" as loud as I could and pulling my girl back and she wasn't even getting her hackles up, thankfully. The owners never even came out of the garage, (that will be another point I deal with). Don't know if the yelling was why so quickly he turned and left, or because my girl didn't care??? Very unnerving and wouldn't wish that on anyone. Well, got to calm down myself, but do understand it (like most things) can happen when you never expect. Would carry mace myself but we live in Texas and the winds never die down here, so I think that wouldn't be a good thing! Judy

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....In my area, I know quite a few people whose friendly, social dogs have been bitten, and owners who have also been bitten defending their dogs, several requiring stiches.....

Last week I listened to Ed's dog fight podcast. It's pretty long and detailed. While listening to it, I made some decisions in my mind about whether/if/when I would attempt to break up a dog fight, how I would avoid one (more importantly), and so on.

What I'm trying to say is that this thread and others like it are good, IMHO, because they can prod us into thinking about such things before they happen. We can have some kind of clear thinking in advance of the situation (and "the situation" would cause pure panic in the absense of some advance thinking).

I'm no less concerned about the possibility, but I feel far less likely to panic and become useless.

Threads like this one, I think, can help us to be prepared.

I thought I was more of a reader-learner, but in this case, I was jogged by listening.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4171034

I guess I am feeling a little alone here, I am not so concerned about a loose dog attacking mine, as I have been working with mine for dog aggression, I worry about the other dog running up to her and her starting a rukus. I have her on an e-collar, and she is now looking to me for direction when we are walking and she sees another dog, I reward her with lots of praise when she focuses on me now instead of the other dog....but if they come a runnin right up, I can't take the chance, she gets tossed behind me and I work the situation.....is there anyone else with my concern?

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What I'm trying to say is that this thread and others like it are good, IMHO, because they can prod us into thinking about such things before they happen. We can have some kind of clear thinking in advance of the situation (and "the situation" would cause pure panic in the absense of some advance thinking).

I'm no less concerned about the possibility, but I feel far less likely to panic and become useless.

Threads like this one, I think, can help us to be prepared.

Connie, I hope you're right. Sitting at my computer, I feel confident I'll do the right thing but once I'm being approached by a snarling dog, it's way more difficult. Having started this thread (I'm so glad I did), I do feel more empowered now on our walks and that can only be a good thing for my dog and me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

Valerie,
I have that situation with my older, aggressive dog. I keep her on lead, of course, and never walk her at the time and place when off-lead dogs are allowed. Of course, we still run into loose dogs, but not strays. One advantage of city living is that no-one lets their dog run free to wander, at least not intentionally. I carry treats, and if she stares at a dog, I use the "Look" command to distract. If she seems disinterested in the other dog, I have her down-stay, and wait for them to pass. If she really stiffens, which means she is about to lunge, she gets a correction with the dominant dog collar. Like you, I have stepped front of her, yelled at dogs to keep away, told humans that she bites, and fortunately, we have never had a dangerous incident.
polly