One thing I noticed last night with the leash trick, was that the dog end of the leash was still tight, so I was not really getting the walking I wanted.

The dog sits and downs well on command, even when distracted, so I have been trying to solve the slack leash issue on our daily walks. I do not want to be teaching him to heel at this point, just to be well mannered and not pulling my wife when she walks him. (she keeps him close, and uses the heel command, thus the confusion. We have discussed it, and I am doing all the walks now, until he learns to walk nice. This is also why I decided against the keeping him to within one inch of correct, because so far it has led to confusion). The goal is that he have manners while being alowed to sniff an look for a good potty spot.

I did a google search to see what other sites recommended, and hit on the tree response. The explanation given was that pulling on a leash, on a dog who wants to walk, is generally a self rewarding behaviour. So the goal is to teach the dog that he gets to walk when he stays nearby. The advice to become a lamp post when the leash becomes tight, and to walk when it becomes slack.

A light went off in my head, and it made sense. So I tried it. In practice it is alot like changing direction, but the when I was changing directions before, I did not properly time it to co incide with him hitting the end of the leash. When he started pulling I gave the command, and then popped him, so it was a correction, he was not correcting himself, like in Ed's DVD. Now I can see that with correct timing direction changes would work, but I had poor timing. Seeing this in action cleared things up.

I hooked him up (dead ring, even. I have never been able to walk this dog dead ring on the prong) and we went for our walk. While he was correct, he got stroked and petted and d praised. I had my hands on my belly with the handle of the leash. When he hit the end and my hands started to move I stopped walking. He stopped, looked at me, and that movement created enough slack in the leash that I continued walking. By the end of our 40 minute walk I was letting him correct himself about as much as in the beginning, but by the end of the walk he seemed to start to realize that the way to get me to move was to create slack in that leash. Some times he corrected himself into a sit, but before his butt hit the ground there was slack in the leash and I was moving, so normally he never got to a sit, without a command to sit.

For my goals, what do you think. The dog seems to be starting to offer the correct behaviour after the first walk. Am I setting myself up for problems? Our training, in the house, is starting to work the heel. The walks are just him getting out to look around, relieve himself, ect. We are walking in an area where the 6 foot circle is safe for he and I traffic, ect) and are doing it at a time of day where there are few people.

Sorry for the long winded discourse, but it was a long graveyard shift, and I am ready for bed.

thanks again,

pat

Wow, that is a great idea. Thanks for posting it. I think this is what I will try in the house when I get started. I don't think I'm going to be able to get the timing right on the about turns enough to avoid confusing the dog.

I will post an update.

During our 35 minute walk this evening, Jake pulled about 20% less, and paid more attention. I could see him feeling for where the leash went taut, and back off. It appears he is learning. We are still working on "heel" indoors, for different applications.

pat

Well... I've been trying out this "lamp post" method for a few times now. Unfortunately, my dog doesn't seem to be "getting it". Maybe he isn't fully bonded to me or whatever, but when the leash gets tight and I stop walking, the dog stops too, leash tight, and continues looking forward. Or, he just tries to keep walking and when that doesn't work, he'll move off to the side and sniff some grass or something, all the while straining on the lead.

I think the key here is the dog is supposed to turn and look at you expectantly, like, "what's going on here?", only my dog doesn't do that. Should I be correcting him? Calling his name? (When I do that, his ears go back but it takes a few times before he looks.)

I am too afraid of damaging his neck to use a Gentle Leader/Halti style thing.

I noticed this collar & leash combo on "The Dog Whisperer" website...

http://cesarmillaninc.com/abouticollar.php

Watch the video clip & see what you think -- Maybe others here will offer their reviews too <:-)

Catahoula Leopard Dogs can be tough dogs

Heeling in my opinion is advanced training
Proofing requires the dog’s ability to concentrate/place their owner’s wishes, above their own, for long periods of time.
Heeling is a very long, moving stay!
How is your dog's stay?

Teach your dog to sit at a heel.
I prefer military finish or swing!
Make sure your dog can do this over and over.
Reward can be bribery at first.
But reward must quickly advance to play with an object!
Heel and play, heel and play etc…
It is not by accident that off leash heeling exercises in competition coincide with the advancement of the dog’s ability to retrieve!

Exercises (sit at heel) are called precision exercises.
"Back" the swing, "Close" the sit at a heel!
I teach rear end awareness and practice until my dogs can heel backwards as well as forwards!

My experience with Catahoula Leopard Dogs would suggest that a prong collar would give short term control, but in the long term would only serve make them tougher.

Hey, great thread and am learning lots...here's my twist to the thread...my 13 week old gs puppy has herding lines on her mom's side and she's constantly herding me when I try to walk her...not only does she constantly pull when trying to walk her but she's forever crossing in front of me, lagging back, lunging forward, etc...it's a game with her and she's obviously having fun doing all of it...is she too young for a pinch collar?

I watched Ed with "Nic" on the 8 to 8 dvd and he never used prongs..only flat with 6-8ft or 20ft lines..she's a sweet girl, but she's pretty darned hard and doesn't get her feelings hurt easily.

anyone with a pup/dog with these traits?

I just bought a prong for my 5 month old Lab because he does the very same thing your puppy does on walks...pulling ahead, crossing in front, etc. The prong has helped enormously and I can finally have a decent walk with my dog. I don't really have to administer any corrections. He self-corrects whenever he hits the end of the leash. My bosses adult GSD has crazy herding instincts and pulls like a truck...with a prong she walks very nicely.

Now, getting the darn thing to fit correctly (as demonstrated by Ed's video) without choking the dog is another story. Removing five links caused my dog to choke. Removing four links lets it slip slightly down his neck. One more thing: I have the pinch-the-link collar and I got my finger trapped in the link between my dog's neck and couldn't get it out! I am fortunate that all I have is a black-and-blue finger and not a broken one.

ouch!

does he act like you did something to him when he gets zapped? just wondering...I definitely don't want to diminish her high speed drive being just a baby.

I also have 2 Catahoula's. When it comes to these dogs, exercise and timing is everything.

Before I even attempt a walk we give them about 15 minutes of pure running exercise. Then I will put them on leashes with the prong.

TIMING is so important. More than the type of collar. I trained my GSD to walk nicely using a flat collar. I used the prong with them because they are harder than my GSD. Having said that, when they are about to hit the end of the leash I do an about-face and RUN the other direction. They get a correction AND have to follow me (or be dragged). You must be strong, and do this EVERY TIME they hit the end of the leash. The dogs still walk ahead but not let the leash get tight and they constantly check to see where I was at.

As a side note, I'm not talking about 8 week old puppies here. I don't teach dogs to walk nicely on a leash until they are about 4 months old so they can handle the correction.

I have the quick release prong and they are AWESOME, no hurt fingers.