Again, I'm going to back up hand-feeding with no bowl for a couple of weeks.

There's this game I play with Tessie called "cookie zen" that deals with politeness around hands and food. Take a piece of kibble/liver/small milkbone/whatever and hold it in your clenched fist. Present this to your dog, who will presumably begin licking/gnawing lightly on your hand to try to get it out. As soon as your dog stops making contact -- even for a split second! -- open your fist and let the cookie drop to the ground.

It's imperative that the cookie drops -- if you feed the dog directly in your hand you're sending mixed messages.

This helps to teach the dog that leaving your hand alone when food is involved will -bring- it food. If you clicker train, you can insert a well-timed 'click' just as the dog leaves you around. (I actually found this game on a clicker training site.)

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Again, I'm going to back up hand-feeding with no bowl for a couple of weeks.

There's this game I play with Tessie called "cookie zen" that deals with politeness around hands and food. Take a piece of kibble/liver/small milkbone/whatever and hold it in your clenched fist. Present this to your dog, who will presumably begin licking/gnawing lightly on your hand to try to get it out. As soon as your dog stops making contact -- even for a split second! -- open your fist and let the cookie drop to the ground.

It's imperative that the cookie drops -- if you feed the dog directly in your hand you're sending mixed messages.

This helps to teach the dog that leaving your hand alone when food is involved will -bring- it food. If you clicker train, you can insert a well-timed 'click' just as the dog leaves you around. (I actually found this game on a clicker training site.)

Aren't those two suggestions contradicting each other?
Hand feed the puppy, then try to teach him that not touching a hand will bring him a treat?


If she's hand feeding the dog at meal times, he's definately not going to learn that leaving her hand alone will bring him food.

I understand what that trick is trying to accomplish by dropping the treat instead of letting him eat it from your hand (teaching the dog that absolutely no hand contact gives him a reward...is that right?) But if she's hand feeding him his meals, he will have to eat from her hand then, so won't that send mixed signals to the puppy????
Or are you saying thats how she should hand feed Romeo, by putting the kibble in her hand and dropping it when he stops contact with her hand???

Something that has worked really well for me as far as food aggression is adding goodies to their bowls while they are eating. Like most others here, my dogs sit and wait for me to release them before they can eat. They have to give me eye contact before they are released.

Once they are eating I will walk over to them with something really yummy and drop it into their bowl. After a while I alternate between feeding them the treat out of my hand or dropping it into the bowl. It doesn't take long before I can reach into their bowl whether I have anything or not. My hands reaching into their bowl is a good thing <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I do NOT take my dogs food away unless absolutely necessary. They should be allowed to eat in peace without me pestering them. I do sometimes have to reach down and move the bowl after it slides across the floor and gets stuck under the cabinets (doesn't happen often, but it does happen) and they don't even blink, because my reaching for their bowl has always been a positive experience.

This method has worked very well for all four of my current rotties. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Aren't those two suggestions contradicting each other?
Hand feed the puppy, then try to teach him that not touching a hand will bring him a treat?


If she's hand feeding the dog at meal times, he's definately not going to learn that leaving her hand alone will bring him food.

I understand what that trick is trying to accomplish by dropping the treat instead of letting him eat it from your hand (teaching the dog that absolutely no hand contact gives him a reward...is that right?) But if she's hand feeding him his meals, he will have to eat from her hand then, so won't that send mixed signals to the puppy????
Or are you saying thats how she should hand feed Romeo, by putting the kibble in her hand and dropping it when he stops contact with her hand???

She COULD hand feed Romeo like that. I did a lot of this work with Tessie until I was positive that I could trust her to not accidentally nip me. Even in her crazy agility classes, she is as gentle as a lamb taking food from my hand. NOW when I hand feed Tessie it is on a flat, open palm (like one feeds treats to horses).

'Cookie Zen' teaches the dog that pawing, gnawing, and biting hands is not acceptable, EVEN when they have something you want inside of them, EVEN when they are in fists (some dogs, especially shelter dogs, find fists threatening), and that giving hands their 'personal space' results in a reward.

As far as hand-feeding Romeo, it should either be done on a flat, open palm, and before EACH mouthful the dog is released -- or it should be done Cookie Zen style. When I hand feed Tessie, she sits in front of me, I put the handful of food at her level, and I say "okay" -- then she eats. When the handful is done, she backs up (giving me my space) and sits (essentially saying 'please'). Lather-rinse-repeat until the bowl is empty.

Technically, cookie zen is a form of release. When I'm not practicing zen, I am waiting for my dog to 'say please' -- to sit and watch me with 'soft eyes' (not staring me down, by any means) and to give me my personal space. I then put the food on the ground and say "okay!" and the dog is released to eat. When I am practicing zen, I am waiting for my dog to 'say please' differently -- to give my hand some personal space. When I drop the food on the ground, my dog is technically allowed to go for it immediately, but she frequently still waits, looking at me, waiting for her release word. YES, you can play cookie zen on a release word, too -- I train with people who do so. (Dog leaves hand - handler drops cookie - dog waits - handler releases dog - dog eats.)

By the way, I found the original link of where I got the 'zen' idea from in my bookmarks: http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/TL26Zen.html I have adapted parts of it for my own purposes, and left out other parts, but you may find it interesting reading.

"Cookie Zen".... re-naming marker training into something trendy.....and lucrative. Boy are we all dumb! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I fail to see how this game -is- marker training. Marker training is using a click, a word, or a flash of light to mark a desired behavior. Cookie zen is just leaving a person's hand alone to get the damn cookie already.

By the way, the person who came up with the game and it's name is making no profit from it, so I doubt you can really call it lucrative, no?

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I fail to see how this game -is- marker training. Marker training is using a click, a word, or a flash of light to mark a desired behavior. Cookie zen is just leaving a person's hand alone to get the damn cookie already.

By the way, the person who came up with the game and it's name is making no profit from it, so I doubt you can really call it lucrative, no?

The article makes very specific mention to CUES… both physical and more importantly verbal.

“This fist will be the dog’s first CUE. The fist cue says “Keep away from my hand.” Later you can change the cue if you want to, add a word that means the same thing”

They are suggesting you use negative markers. They don’t discuss using positive markers in the article but suggest you let the dog figure out how to get the treat. IMO positive markers would make getting into the “Cookie Zen” much easier.

Many here will see comparisons to “The Balabanov Method”. If I had thought of the “Cookie Zen” phrase, I’d be publishing my first training book, have my own show on Animal Planet, and be touring the country!