Glad I could help.

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You are quoting from the AKC standard, but the dogs with roach backs are not the American show lines, they are the West German ones.

The FCI standard is the same....straight back. The straight back has always been the standard for the GSD. I know of no other standard that allows the roach or banana back. If you know of a different standard, please post it.

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The FCI standard is the same....straight back. The straight back has always been the standard for the GSD. I know of no other standard that allows the roach or banana back. If you know of a different standard, please post it.

It still does not make sense to me to apply the AKC standard to German dogs. That was my point.

The bottom line is the AKC and THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG CLUB OF AMERICA have done more to destroy the breed than all the back yard breeders put together. Until these organizations place more emphasis on temperament and working ability they do not deserve your respect or support.

AMEN! I still have not sent my dogs' puppy registration papers back to the AKC, & might not ever, for the reasons you state. I do not want to support them. He is reg with the SV, which I'm thinking is good enough for me.

Too bad they have lots of neat agility and obedience and flyball programs, amongst other fun things.

I do not agree with the way things are as far as the structure goes in AKC but I agree that they have some good obedience , agility and other titles. Personally I think it is a little harder due to the fact that you have to go under three judges to earn your title. Some say it is because they are out to get the money but from what I see it is about the same price. JMO

What has happened to the GSD in the American ring is atrocious. Whenever I am at breed shows I cringe at the look of them. However, blame needs to be laid at the feet of the breed organizations and, more importantly, the breeders. This is not just an "AKC" issue. The GSDs in the show rings in Canada and UKC are similarly atrocious. I always feel that the AKC is an easy scapegoat. Yeah, they will register these dogs but at the end of the day, the breeders are the ones that put the dogs together in the first place. A breed will only stay true to its origins and purpose as the breed club and breeders want it to.

I see both sides of the coin. I hear Schutzhund people diss the AKC for destroying a breed by breeding only for looks. I won't argue that there are a lot of breeders out there that do that (in all breeds as the GSD is not my breed). Hell, I am a broken record in my breed (ACDs) as I can't stand to see some of the weak tempered, stupid dogs that people think should be bred. Frustrates the heck out of me. But, my breed club works hard to ensure that working ability and temperament, as well as correct working stucture are not lost in the quest of breed ring wins. So far we are winning the battle.

I can also see the other extreme - these working dogs with drive to kill for that have straight shoulders and other conformation faults that cause them to break down by the age of 4. It is heart breaking to see a dog physically incapable of doing what it mentally wants to do. So breeding for working ability only ain't the end all be all either.

Whether the AKC is at fault for crappy dogs is an age old debate and I equate it to the dog world's version of abortion. You ain't gonna change many people's tightly held beliefs on the issue <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just my unasked for 2 cents.

Ingrid
Psycht Australian Cattle Dogs

I really appreciate everyone's posts. As a proud owner of a couple of German Show Line Dogs, I see many problems with ALL of the organizations that I'm familiar with thus far: AKC, GSDCA, WDA, UScA, and SV.

I have started many responses on this thread, but have deleted them all. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> or <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I want to see the Protection Tests at this upcoming weekend's WDA North American Sieger Show.

I am thrilled to be honest about my own show line dogs - that's all I can do. Kimba is a Conformation Queen (by at least a dozen SV judges), SchH1 KKL1 Diva. Dave, hubby, and I all believe she has more to give on the field.

Fergie is a mediocre "show line conformation dog" who has a LOT to offer on the field. Come watch him. Come watch both of them. Come watch a couple of other show line dogs who might surprise you after Good Training.

MAN there is so much more I want to say. And I don't think I've said what I HAVE said very effectively. I hope we can discuss the SV while we are discussing this AKC / GSDCA stuff, while we're talking about what might be negatively affecting the GSD breed in the US.

ETA: Let's talk about how we can make it BETTER!! (warning - you might get a "sales pitch" about the Junior Handler progam I'm passionate about!)

Many thanks,
Beth

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Why do you think this ever became a desirable trait among conformation GSDs in the first place? I'm sort of curious.

I have no clue. Sometimes I think it took one or two judges who personally knew the breeder or handler of a GSD being shown that had a roach back and made it a winner, with a trickle down effect. I can't really imagine what made it a phenomenon, beginning to appear as a desired trait and now being accepted.