Hi Tina. I applaud you for coming back, and continuing to seek advice here.

My opinion - separate rooms are a GREAT stop gap measure to get your immediate situation under control. Also in my opinion, crates are better, more reliable, and safer for the dogs and for your child than gates across doorways could ever be. I strongly recommend investing in crates as soon as you can.

While I still consider myself a "newbie" I learned an important lesson almost 20 years ago with my first dog. I thought "crates were just plain mean - like putting your puppy in the zoo." You haven't said that's what you think - I'm bringing this up just in case that's what you think.

For whatever crazy reason, I thought enclosing my Not Potty Trained Or In Any Other Way Trained puppy in a bathroom was more "humane" than a crate. Not. He got in WAY more trouble that was potentially dangerous to him and infuriating to me (thankfully he didn't chew up a can of Drano) in that bathroom than he could ever do in a crate.

I respect your bravery for continuing to post here, and I hope you will keep coming. It's clear you are a dog lover -there is nothing wrong with becoming a more knowledgeable & experienced dog lover.

Beth

Hi Tina, maybe you should think about rehoming a couple of dogs (that may take awhile), that would be in the best interest of the dogs. 4 dogs is just to many in most situations. Don't feel bad about it, but definitely rehome or you'll probably end up with a dead or maimed dog or two,
Good luck,
AL

 Quote:

I have seen similar behavior with my VERY alpha male toward others. He will take it upon himself to correct any of the others if they disobey me, as you're describing. I remove him from the room before I correct another dog, b/c he is always wanting to step in.

There are brown-nosers in every walks of life, I guess! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> All seriousness aside, sounds like he's just sucking up to the boss to try to gain favor. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Could be, Diana. Although I've seen him do this to younger dogs that I don't own. He's just bossy, I guess. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It can be dangerous though, if they don't submit immediately. As he gets older, he's moved from just a quick "talk" to some serious aggression if challenged. Not pretty and not acceptable. I'm afraid Tina's going to have a much harder time because her dogs have already gotten away with it, whereas mine has just tried it. I wish her luck.

Agreed, it's much harder to reform a bad habit than it is to just do it right from the start. In this case, Tina will need to do everything strictly by the book and be firm yet fair. All dogs will need to be separated and mistakes must be minimal (they'll happen, but care must be taken that mistakes are minor). Tina and the dogs are not in a good situation, and in times when pack order is in question and getting hammered out there will be a great deal of conflict.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1929242...d=1KNQJGLS61U7P
That's a neat book I wish I had. It's a collection of photos with good descriptions of why the dog is posing the way it is and the context of the situation. Too bad it was twice as much in the store I found the book in or else I would have bought it. Seems to be pretty accurate but I do welcome opinions as to the veracity of the information in the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Terms-Dogs...1612925?ie=UTF8
I hear this one is good as well, it's a means for using body language to defuse a situation. I've tried one method on a cat, looking at the cat with "soft eyes" (blinking slowly and often), and it worked quite well- a cat that otherwise wanted to eat everyone but her owner ended up allowing me to play with her within a few minutes, though still keeping a couple feet of distance. These are no substitute for the info you've already received but they're more good tools for your Canine Behavior Toolbox.

Also, I'm sure anything you buy from here will be a great resource. Glad you picked up the dominant dog DVD!

The reason that Cesar can have such a large pack of dogs with no problems is that he is the absolute Alpha of that pack. And, those dogs are not permitted to interact unsupervised. In your case, In your dogs' eyes you are not the absolute, 24/7 pack leader.

In my opinion you need to get professional help from a trainer experienced in dealing with powerful breeds as well as experience in dealing with aggression. Some possiblities would be personal protection k9 trainers, police k9 trainers, schutzhund and French Ring trainers. And be prepared for the trainer to use some what may seem to you to be harsh measures.

Thank you everyone for all of your input. I take it all very seriously and will try anything so that I do not have to break up my pack. But I understand that if the situation can not be worked out I will have to rehome some of the dogs. It just breaks my heart to do that because I've had them for so long and the fighting just started 4 years ago with maybe one fight per year.
I just got the Dominant & Aggressive Dog DVD, which I'm making my husband watch with me. And I have an appointment set up (for all three dogs) with a behaviorist at the animal hospital I work at. The next step will be a professional dog trainer. I will keep all of you posted as to how the dogs are doing.
Also in the process of buying more crates.
Thanks again for all of your help.

I would seperate them rather than rehome them. I have 2 dogs who get along fine but since the pup is young I keep them seperated about 98% of the time and it's really alot easier than I thought it'd be. I added a 3rd dog to the household for a few days last week that I was working thru a few issues for someone, a male GSD 20 months old, n my own male is dog aggressive toward other males, but even alternating between 3 dogs all seperated from eachother wasn't that big of a deal, 2 dogs wait patiently in their crates while I let the 3rd one get their playtime/free time/do what the heck you want time. There's ways to live with seperated dogs that once you get into a routine, it's not a big deal. It'd be especially easy if your neighborhood allows you to put up kennel runs so that the dogs don't have to be stuck in a crate. If it's just 2 dogs that are getting into it with eachother then you just need to rotate those 2 dogs assuming they get on fine with the other 2 dogs, or if you have a fenced yard, let one in the yard and the other inside then rotate the dogs once in a while.

Just wanted to add on to Mike's post...I have three dogs: a German Shepherd (4), another German Shepherd (7 months), and a Cairn Terrier (9). My CT is not allowed with my GSD puppy, although they coexist with the use of baby gates & crates. I think eventually they will be able to be together, but not until my pup grows out of her silly puppy behavior. My 2 GSDs are together for about 2 hours a day, more on the weekends...in the morning for their walk, usually an hour or so, and in the evenings when everyone is good and tired for a bit too. Otherwise they are also kept separated with the use of crates/baby gates.

What I have found works best for us is a GOOD ROUTINE! We do the same thing at the same time most days...this helps enormously to maintain order!

-Melissa

About Cesar...one of the reasons he's able to do these outstanding miracles with dogs is because he "speaks dog." He knows what their body language says and he addresses the issue before it blows up. Your dogs may seem like they have these issues out of the blue...but they don't. There are clues that these things are brewing. In addition to the dominant dog video and all of the other advice people are giving you here, you may want to consider doing some research on dog language within a pack. Most of us will never be Cesar Millan, but you can make huge strides if you can "read" your dogs. The time to correct a dog is while he's thinking about doing something aggressive, not while he's eating your other dog.

Good luck to you and your dogs!