Yeah I think I lost a star when I went on my showline dogs rant. Also well worth it. But then a good samaritan gave it back.

Yes, FR is a sport and shouldn't be construed as an indication of potential real life work, at least not by itself, but it looks fun. I think a few people here mentioned that a lot of trainers heavily use the e-collar for the training. Is it mostly through aversion/escape/avoidance training?

Oh yes I'm not knocking it as a wonderful long distance correction/communication tool, but if it were the whole basis of a training program, that just doesn't seem right. You're right about PSDs, but then I wonder, should it also then apply to PPDs? Both are real life workers..

In my opinion, a personal protection dog should be under control by his handler at any time.That's why I won't use a e-collar for everything.He does not live with an e-collar on at all time, so I have to be able to handle him without one.For some people it's convenience and for others it's a tool and some they don't want to learn how to train without it.And oh for some others the e-collar helps them look like the pack leader they are not. .I think it all depends.For example I have seen dogs that have an e-collar on for every training it has before going into competition.Competition time arrives and the dog knows he does not hve the e-collar on and guess what his obedience looks bad and he does not come when recalled during the bite work. That's the chance I am taking on using the e-collar for the out. When our trial comes I just hopes he outs when I say out At least I get 3 chances.But for me to take the chance on everything else, no way.

Took me three days to get my flash player to work. Love the dog videos the more the merrier. Merrier ha pun intended Mery chrismas. Apparently my 18 year old son down loaded some crap about two years ago and it took me this long to find out it was in my media player. Can you see how dog videos can help in so many ways. I love dog videos

wow all this star talk what will the Jone's think when you have none or one?

 Quote: john aiton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3qw-Gqaac

This looks pretty cool!

There is a guard routine that I wondered what the purpose was. The dog guards the decoy by keeping his head between his legs.

Other than the obvious scare tactics of "jewel" removal what is the advantage of this?

There is a very nasty bite at the end all us guys will jump at when seen!

Enjoy :-)

John

It is really just a way to save points for the higher levels of the sport. Good decoys are able to manipulate the dog and get an extra meter or 2 away from them. Like any other sport, they end up doing things that nobody would ever do for "real" training in order to get an extra point or two.

 Quote: diana matusik

Yeah I think I lost a star when I went on my showline dogs rant. Also well worth it. But then a good samaritan gave it back.

Yes, FR is a sport and shouldn't be construed as an indication of potential real life work, at least not by itself, but it looks fun. I think a few people here mentioned that a lot of trainers heavily use the e-collar for the training. Is it mostly through aversion/escape/avoidance training?

The FR people I've worked with don't use an e-collar, but I'm sure some people do out there that would use it extensively. I don't think that aversion/escape/avoidance training is a good idea for FR, though. The dog simply requires too much drive at the higher levels to do that type of training.

One thing to remember about FR is that the number of bites required in an exercise is a very high number. The number of bites required to successfully train the techniques is a very high number. Intersperse agility and obedience exercises in between all of these, and it's very hard to see a way to successfully use aversion/escape/avoidance training and keep the type of drive and energy you need.

Like Sch the successful trainers are likely to use something like "Drive - Compulsion - Drive" in most cases.

I'm not a FR expert - my trainer says that my dog is now a "Fifth-year-Senior" who I need to polish the obedience enough to get his titles (at least the Brevet and Ring I).

He is a GSD who probably doesn't have the drive for me to train all of the routines perfectly, but on the plus side he is successful at channeling pressure into biting harder, so there's not a lot a decoy could do that will freak him out (and take a level of pressure that makes sleeve work seem more fun for him).

Phew, ok, I've calmed down a titch now. Can't help but hackle up when my beloved sport is attacked... A joke it was, a joke it will be.

Uhm, as far as the between the leg thing, to answer those that were asking. The decoy is allowed to spin and turn, slow down, speed up etc during the escort and it's easier for the dog to stay in a position for an immediate bite when they're in the middle. A dog guarding up front or behind can sometimes be manipulated by the decoy by using the hands or whatever to get the dog out of position and allow a metre or two on an escape. (or at least, that's why I use it) As far as a tall dog and a short decoy... this is a bit of a problem. My guy is on the bigger side for Mals, (about 75 pounds and lean) and on the occasion where it's a short mexican decoy he actually just tucks his head in there and pushes the decoy around with his shoulders. He doesn't look too comfortable, but I'll be damned if I could talk him out of not being there...

I personally don't use the e-collar too often, I prefer a leash or verbal. I'd rather my dog know exactly where the correction is coming from. It definately has it's place in training, but I don't want to overuse anything in my "toolbox".

Oh put your hackles down, just what we don't want to see ,defense drive in the sport LOL
We (schtz peeps) get attacked all the time, but we have the good fight drive, we can take it.