My plan at some point in time is nobody will pet her. Besides family that is. As a pup I just want to build lots of confidence.
Lot of different opinions and training styles have been mentioned and over all lots of good input.

Steve

YEAH , more real PPD dog owners are chiming in. So we all can learn from a broader base.

Angelique, I don't think there's anything wrong with your choice to not let people pet your ADULT trained dog. But you stated you got him at a year old, which is past then normal 'puppy' socialization stages that I am addressing. What was done with him prior to your purchase would be interesting. Can you contact the breeder so they can chime in?

Sorry I wasn't clearer about my background and experience. Will R knows very well I do NOT have a PPD dog, and that's what that's all about. What I do have are 3 dogs that I've raised and trained and my 'sport' is agility. My older GSD has her MACH (Master Agility Championship) and is also a therapy dog that I got to bring to help in NYC after 9/11. Both my GSD's are from West German 'working' lines. But Schutzhund lines (Sire: 2000 BSP Ernst vom Weinbergblick SchH3, FH, KKl2a
Dam: Ira vom Argatos SchH1 (HOT), CGC, OFA) , not PPD . I would NOT feel comfortable giving training suggestions toward the specifics of a PPD.

But 'socialization'? To raise a confident and self-assured puppy to be the same as an adult. I feel that should be pretty similiar for ALL of our puppies. It's a genetic born temperament thing that hopefully we have in the puppy we select AS WELL as our getting educated on puppy developement and the stages they go thru during their first year. PPD pups aren't elephants, or giraffes or emus, they are PUPPIES! And all the science and research that is out there for use to read and take advantage of so we take advantage of this valuable age in our pups life is just so important.

I can find site after site after site on the internet that shows puppies improperly socialized can become fearful, shy, timid or too aggressive. These same sites have recommendations on how to raise pups to avoid this. And I can't imagine how the specific training that IS given to a PPD dog as they reach adulthood can get past a puppy's temperament if they are timid, or shy, or fearful, or overly aggressive.

I'd LOVE to read other people's experiences. It's fine if I am wrong (heck, I'm a big girl and have been wrong before) and PPD puppies benefit from isolation. I come to this site to LEARN and I'm sure there are others that do the same. Links that are posted with more info would be great for me.

Thanks to those that are posting about their puppy experiences and how their adult PPD dogs have turned out. That's the way I learn.

 Quote: John Andrews

I have a 4 year female GSD, that is a trained PPD. Our dog is fully socialized and I let anybody pet her from toddlers to adults. She is extremely clear headed. We continue to train her every month in different scenarios and bite work.

On the other hand, I have another 2 year old female GSD who is also protection trained. I would not let anybody pet her, nor does she want to be petted. She is on the sharp side. This dog seems to put out bad vibes, nobody ever asks to pet her.

It all boils down to your dog's temperament. There is no one answer. Every dog is different.

YMMV.

John

John, these are the interesting dogs I'd like more info on. Both PPD trained so a great comparison. Which dog's personality would you PREFER if you had a choice. Which fits better into your lifestyle.

And did you raise both of these dogs? Similar socialization the first year? Would different socialization of helped? Not? Is there anything you wish you could have done differently?

My point exactly, like I said on my other reply :We(husband & I) choose that no one pets our dogs.I never said that that is the only way to train a PPD dog.And so I want to clarify that not everyone trains at the same level .Their are different levels of PPD and levels of training.And I know that Steve asked about socialization and I did say for I got mine when he was a year.
It all depends on the type of PPD you want.We 've met a couple that has a Bouvier as a PPD and he only was taught to bark and show teeth but never to bite the person, cause they are scared of liabilities but they call their dog a PPD.To some people that would not be considered to be a PPD.
Jenn,
I agree with what your are saying about socialization 100%, as far as what foundation my dog had when we got him he was very civil , and had the foundation of what a ppd dog needs.He was social ,anyone could pet him and he has no bad nerves issue.I've been doing Schutzhund for the past 6 years.I have a retired Schutz 3 (lives at my parents now), I had him since he was 8 weeks and I trained him myself (with our Schutz Club) so I am not new at this and I know the difference between the bite works.
I train with mostly man that are in law enforcement and know all about" k9" training.Including a retired officer who was head of Search and rescue for 12 years. We do alot of different kind of training in our club, I've seen it all.I know what it takes to have a good PPd, and lets not forget a good dog.But I was speaking about my dog , not everyone elses.
And I am responding to your comment"hope some REAL PPD people comment on this thread" after a few of us had responded.So I'd like you know that my dog is a "real" ppd dog.

Jenn,

Which one would I PREFER. Well, both of course. Both have different purposes. My social 4 year bitch is our family protection dog. My sharp 2 year old bitch is my personal protection dog. She is either in the backyard or crated when she is not out with me. I wanted a sharper dog for my personal protection. That's just me.

For family protection, I would rather a more social dog, for obvious reasons.

Both of these dogs I imported from the Eastern Europe. I did not have them as puppies.

Both of my GSD's are fantastic dogs and beautiful to boot!

Best,

John

Thanks John and Angelique, those were both great responses and BOTH from 'real' PPD dog owners!

hi, my dogs has to deal alot with crowd, one of the most common responses to adog in acrowd is strangers hands reach out to pet it not allways you have the chance or the time to tell tham to stop or dont do that not allways you can concentrated on the dog and in my case im not all the time near the dog.
iwant all my dogs to know that strangers peting tham is normall and naturall behavior same iteach tham to indifference scared reactions or hasitant reactions or praying peaople and so on but idont want that it will ever distract tham of their work (which is ussely to search, to attack or to protect) so i deal with it like evry other human distraction:
ifirst show the puppy its ok and its afreindly gesture and nothing to be consern with then iuse pepole petting it as adistracion: first imake intrest in the handler (by showing aball or tug or somthing) than ithrow toy in acrowd that will send hands to pet while the dog chasing (the main prensepole is that if the dog will distract by the petings it will loose the toy and so on later the dog will search near people and they will requested to pet it while it work.
in alater age iuse peting as distraction of the "bad guy" like you like to call it: somtimes the man that pet it will be the one carry the explosives (which the dog should mark) somtimes the pet guy will suddenly attack the handler or will draw aweapoon and so on. so in the maintence routine phase im not consernd at all couse iknow my dog wont pay attention to anyone that will pet it it will be for him like branches tuching it back on the bush. idont know how does it combain with your guys ppd training programs but ican see you have slight diffrent approach than mine which is very curious me. will love to hear your opinion/
sefi.s
israel

Steve, there are two variables at work here that you may also want to consider - many, if not most PPD owners tend to get a dog that they have not had since puppyhood. Hence, they as owners don't actually know what the real foundation of socialization was for their dog. Raising a PPD from puppyhood for self use is rare in my experience.

Secondly, there is also the classic question - will the dog readily engage a determined attacker? Most people have a PPD as a deterrent and never actually have an encounter that forces their dog to bite a human in defense - and until that happens ( or some *very* realistic scenario training is done, which is rare, rare, rare ) you just never know.

If you know both those variables ( the actual socialization done and that the dog has indeed engaged a man in defense of it's owner ) then you'll get an accurate answer to your question. The best answer to the "what socialization should be done on a PPD" would be best answered by viewing the socialization history of at least 20 to 50 PPD's that have engaged a man in defense of it's owner.

That'd be data that would answer your question in the most useful manner.

Will,

Maybe I should have said PSA dog. With any luck I hope
my dog will never have to save my families life and attack anyone.

Steve

We do not allow our puppies to be petted by anyone outside of our family and some friends who are on the property on a regular basis. We often have one or two close friends stay and look after the animals while we are gone away. My father raises Limousin Cattle and we have horses and dogs. So the dogs are only to trust and follow commands by these few people.
I am starting to train my own dog and I will not allow people to pet her. I take her most places I go and if we encounter people who even look at her in a way that says "Oooh what a cute puppy" I am already telling the dog to "Leave It", outloud and clearly enough that these people get the point that I do not want them being friendly with her.
We have found that with the right genetics and early socialization to many environemnts and confidence building in these environments is all that was needed to have a dog mature later and be a protective dog. All our dogs, the GSD's, Mals, have bitten for real in training and some in an aggressive action from intruders who went far enough to actually lay their hands on one of us. I believe in limited stranger interaction for puppies who show a good sense of stability and strong nerves.