Alison, totally agree and have the same question about the breeds you've mentioned since their original purpose DID include HA under certain circumstances. I don't know anything about them so I won't say anything EXCEPT before we "bash" them or point the finger, keep in mind that our GSDs have a certain amount of aggression that doesn't need to lead to mauling and killing of children. Not saying you were bashing or anything!I wonder the same thing, but in my debate with myself, I keep in mind successful GSDs as PPDs who do not maul people.

I'd think a certain amount of HA is found in *most* breeds; APBTs are supposed to be the exception to this b/c of their original purposes, which is why I feel much more strongly about a people-mean APBT than I do a GSD. Some may say that it's unfair, but if my GSD ever bit me, I'd look back and see what I did wrong. If my APBT ever bit me, save some HUGE error on my part, she's a goner. Sorry, but "rescues" saving biting APBTs aren't doing anyone any favors. If we quit, we may have fewer Pits killing kids.

No backlash here either. If you read any history on the legacy doggers and the way they coexisted with their dogs you would read that in a match dogs had to be handled, most times the dogs had to be handled by strangers in an agitated state. Any dogs that exhibited aggresion towards the handling were considered to NOT be effective and were culled from the breeding program but for some very special exceptions. That is why most times you can handle an injured pit bull without fear of aggression to the handler...if it is well bred. Jenni, I have the two - one AmSt and one APBT. My Pit is very cold when it comes to other dogs...just not interested. Now my female, when she sees another dog...dreadful silence, with the tail a waggin, no snarling, no raised hair .... just this appearingly happy dog that is SO looking forward to the excitement of the fight. To a casual observer who does not know about a pit bull, they would think she wants to play...she does, PB play. All this I have learned from literature and her behavior...so I totally understand and relate to what you are saying....never trust a bulldog not to fight, and understand they may not start it but they sure will finish it....know the breed of dog you own.

Strength and popularity. Some cities are just packed full of pits. If all the cats where 200lbs nobody would even talk about
dog attacks! Yes I kmnow I am wacked.
Why is it OK to have people fight but not animals?
I am not for dog fights but it just seems a little off
when I think about it.

 Quote: steve mcdonald

Why is it OK to have people fight but not animals?

Because people have a choice, animals don't.

 Quote: steve mcdonald

Why is it OK to have people fight but not animals?
I am not for dog fights but it just seems a little off
when I think about it.

I have noticed you're rather blunt in your posts, but this might be something you would want to keep to yourself, considering this is not a dog fighting forum and obviously most people consider it morally wrong from every aspect. Unless this is a rhetorical question in an odd form. Really odd form. I'm not sure what part seems "a little off".

 Quote: steve mcdonald

Strength and popularity. Some cities are just packed full of pits. If all the cats where 200lbs nobody would even talk about
dog attacks! Yes I kmnow I am wacked.
Why is it OK to have people fight but not animals?
I am not for dog fights but it just seems a little off
when I think about it.

Steve, the original post was about a 5 year old who was killed by the family dog. What does 200 pound cats and/or dog vs people fighting have to do with that?
By the way, I would guess it's legal for people to fight and not for animals because 1)prize fighters choose to fight 2)prize fighters don't fight to the death as a rule although accidents do happen 3)Not all people fights ARE legal, that's why people go to jail for assault and disorderly conduct
Your reply didn't make much sense, in my opinion.

This story's so sad. My heart just goes out to the family

I don't know how I missed this one.

I agree with the people who have said that HA and DA are COMPLETELY different. I don't agree with fighting dogs, but I do have a respect for what the dogmen did back in the day. Any dog that showed any sign of human aggression was culled, typically on the spot.

Also, as mentioned before, many people don't know the difference between a pitbull and many other breeds including mutts. I see people who think the english style lab down the street is a pitbull.

I do know a few things about the reason why you only see pitbull maulings on the media however. I know of several cases (that I have either been personally involved in some how or friends have been) of dogs severely attacking people and other animals and it never made the news. None of them were pitbulls. Most of them were "family dogs" such as goldens, labs, and standard poodles (one a labradoodle). When inquiring with news stations (who did show up) as to why the story was never run they replied with "it's not what the public wants" and/or "we're only allowed to run attacks from certain breeds" i.e. pitbulls.

I agree that man biters should not be adopted out, but that's for ANY breed. I also think that no matter what the breed we have to look at the circumstances. Was it a child teasing the dog? Did somebody trespass (even if they have beware of dog signs and this occurs it's still the dog owner's fault). We need to really look at WHY a dog bites. Most dogs will not bite just because. There's always a reason whether it's health related or due to a human's idiocy.

Also, another thing...did you know that pitbulls score EXTREMELY high on the american temperament test? Every year they stay very consistent with their scores (all three "pitbull" breeds). This past year they are actually HIGHER than Goldens and have been equal with them for the past years. 2006 is the first year since I've been looking at these stats that the lab is higher than the pitbulls as well...they were in the high 70's on average. A lot of the little fufu dogs are very low in scores in comparison.

Why is it that places, such as ontario, who have had breed bans have had a RISE in dog bite since then? If it were pitbulls it really wouldn't make sense.

We need to crack down on the people who own dogs in general, put regulations on breeding, etc. I'm all for mandatory spay/neuter unless you're showing and a registered breeder (with tests/fees/state regulations/etc). Every 10-15 years the breed of choice changes. It's been the rottie, the GSD, the doberman, and now the pitbulls. There's already people moving onto American Bulldogs, Cane Corsos, and other large guard or fighting breeds. I work in Boston...I see it all around me.

I do still feel very sorry for any people or children who are bit by dogs, and this is a very sad story. But it makes me so mad when pitbulls are ALWAYS blamed for EVERYTHING when they don't do the majority of the attacking.

Here's the ATTS site:
http://www.atts.org/stats7.html
Here's the find a pitbull test (all of these breeds have been identified as pitbulls):
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

This is horrible. I just heard a horror story about a GSD in my area that completely mangled a newborn baby. The mother had ran downstairs really quick for something and came back up and the baby was torn to shreds. The lady who told me thinks that she knows alot about dogs in general and cautioned me that I should "really watch out once I have kids. DUH! I think I'll have an idea of what I should do with my dogs once I have kids, ya know?

I have a friend who owned 3 pit bulls, they were the sweetest dogs I'd ever met. As far as obedience trained-nope-but they wouldn't hurt a fly, they were never around small children so I don't know how they would act.
On the other hand I know someone who used to breed and fight pits in Detroit, now living in ND and still raising pits. Let his male breed to his female(brother and sister both from his dad's old fighting lines and he said it was an "accident"-I don't think so) And then he sent the male back to Detroit because he started getting mean(I can tell you why-It was how he handled the dog(long story))And now the dog is fighting in pit fights there. He's only making the pit bull breed look even worse.

That's so sad about the infant :-( That's why you NEVER leave children and dogs unattended no matter what. I trust my dogs 99.9%...I won't say 100% because you just never know. They are dogs after all!

The people fighting pits today are really ruining them, and all of the BYBs. Like I mentioned before I don't agree with fighting, but at least the old dogmen had rules and regulations, and would never just throw any ole dogs together.

I also meant to say previously that I think that temperament does have something to do with breeding in EVERY breed not just pits as somebody previously mentioned. Think about it...would any of you breed a dog that was out of wack upstairs and unpredictable? I surely hope not. And why wouldn't you?? Even if it was the best looking dog in the world, or one of the best workers? You run a chance of having mentally unstable pups...