What is the purpose of a full, calm bite in Schutzhund? How does that test the dog for work? The reason I ask is I'd want a dog that retargets as necessary and knows how to fight, not just bite and hold. If I need my dog to protect my family or me I'm not thinking of potentially going to court. I'd rather take my chances. It seems to me that a dog that bites and holds while being hit in a real altercation is not really a thinking dog.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
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This may seem like a legitamate question to someone interested in personal protection, but the fact is Schutzhund is a dog sport. The goal of Schutzhund training is not to produce personal protection dogs. The goal of schutzhund is to measure the working ability of a dog so that breeders can use that information in their breeding program.
The grip that a dog has is a genetic issue. Good training can bring a dog up to it's genetic potential, poor training will result in a poor grip. A dog with a solid grip indicates a well trained dog with sound nerves. Its an indication of a dog that is comfortable in the work.
These kinds of dogs can be trained to do almost anything the handlers want. If they want a personal protection dog it is not diffiocult to convert a sport dog with correct nerves, genetics and good training.
The more I learn about Schutzhund, the more I think its useful in measuring the sporting ability of a dog not the working ability. I don't think its realistic enough to be a true measure of working ability. I would not want a converted sport dog for personal protection. I would want a dog whose parents, grandparents, etc. were working dogs.
If you think about it, what is working ability? I think you could say that it is a combination of a dog's genetics (i.e. what it has ostensibly been bred to do, like GSDs for herding or guard work) and its tractability. A dog can have all the genetic advantages in the world that will enable it to do a job, but this same dog is worse than worthless as a working dog if it does not willingly perform these tasks for its handler.
If you have ever attended a Schutzhund trial, then you know how extremely complex the sport is and the many, many separate tasks that the dog is required to perform (in three completely different disciplines, yet). A dog that is able to master these tasks has given a very good accounting of its working ability AND its tractability. And personally, I would never even consider training a dog in personal protection if I ever had any doubt of the tractability side of the equation.
I'm certainly not going to say a Schutzhund dog isn't highly trained or can't be a good working dog. If I wanted a sport dog I'd get a dog from good sporting lines, and if I wanted a working dog I'd get a dog from working lines.
I agree with you that I'd never want a dog for protection if it weren't tractable. I see too many people around where I live that have vicious dogs. Its a status symbol in their crowd.
OK - so I would like to go back to my original question - if genetics determines bite - and I want a SPORT dog in schutzhund. Can I somehow calm my dogs bite (per first post) for the sport? Or since this dog has had a shaking, jerky, growly, hectic bite since 10 weeks old do I have to live with it and loose points?
Nancy
Nancy, Ed did answer your question. In a way. He said genetics determines the bite. Good handling and helper work brings out his genetic potential. The opposite can cause a poor hectic bite. It's your training director and helper's responsibility to observe the dog and your handling of him to determine which is the cause. If it was from poor imprinting then yes with expert help it is possible. If not, no training in the world will produce a full calm grip.
Another option would be to look at another style of trialing. Not all trials require the dog not to head shake. In some I believe it is encouraged. It depends on the breed of dog that the trial was designed to test.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
Another option would be to look at another style of trialing. Not all trials require the dog not to head shake. In some I believe it is encouraged. It depends on the breed of dog that the trial was designed to test.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
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