Quote: richard pryor

"Thank God nothing happened. Dogs have a hard time digesting bones...

Guess he doesn't quite like raw feeding either, huh?

P.S. Hope all stays well with your pupper.

I've been reading this thread and had nothing to add until now.

Since everything seems fine for now, a few ideas for the future.

Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) is supposed to help dogs digest bone (among other health benefits). I learned the hard way that too much ACV can cause sores in the mouth - maybe from acid reflux? I don't use it unless I believe a dog is going to have a hard time switching to raw/digesting bones. I'm sure there are raw-feeders who have the amount to feed figured out better than I have.

Biotin (a B-vitamin) helps the body digest proteins. The dog that I had been giving ACV now gets biotin. It's a super-cheap supplement at WalMart, Target, Kmart, Walgreens etc. Ask your vet for correct dosage if you want to use it. Actually ask 2 vets because some will just say "yah that's fine" and others will actually go and look up the correct dose.

I put 1/2 cup in my veggie mix for a months worth of feeding for four dogs.
I do not really use it other than that because they also get plain yogurt every few days among other things.
I am going to look into the Biotin though.
Super-cheap sounds good to me, especially when my mouths to feed vary. My baseline is four but goes up from there at times.

Hi Richard,

Just a thought, why don't you grind up your bones with the meat etc? That way you'll know you won't be feeding him something he can't pass in his stool. You don't have to do a fine grind, a course grind would work.

Since grinding was mentioned, I'll add that Bravo has all ground raw food. It's completely raw and completely boneless and, of course, with bone. You have many choices - ostrich, quail, rabbit, salmon, turkey, chicken, elk, venison and buffalo (no bones in those), lamb, elk, duck, etc., etc.

I'm guessing this experience was, at the very least, a little jolting for you. As that may be the case, you at least have an option in Bravo until you decide otherwise.

Bravo can give you some peace of mind knowing you're feeding him great raw food and no worry about the bones!

Note: I am NOT a Bravo food distributor although I know I sound like one. I'm very happy with it.

http://www.bravorawdiet.com

 Quote: CathyScott

Hi Richard,

Just a thought, why don't you grind up your bones with the meat etc? That way you'll know you won't be feeding him something he can't pass in his stool. You don't have to do a fine grind, a course grind would work.

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#whole
http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm#grind

As odd as it may seem, I think that many people do grind at least part of their raw diet. When I started, years ago, and was scared, I did. Then I got much less scared when I saw the results of the switch on several dogs.

Dogs are meant to eat bones, of course, but that doesn't mean we are all instantly ready to give up all the fears we've accumulated.

Because the action of chewing on bones is so hugely beneficial to their teeth and gums, and their neck and jaw muscles, I think we can't really say that ground is as good as unground.

But that said, there are certain parts I have the butcher grind up. I know it's just me; I know it's unnecessary; I know the dog produces enzymes that digest bones. It's just me.

Hi Richard,

It sounds like you got everything under control pretty quickly - I'm happy for you

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but it's a good idea to grind up most of a very young puppy's food.
Obviously at 10 weeks they can handle RMB's, but not in the quantities that you would give to an adult dog.

Keep in mind that in the wild, the wolves feed regurgitated meats to the young puppies. Yes, they learn early on to chew on bones and probably swallow a few fragments here and there, but the bulk of their diet is fresh partially digested meat


My puppy's breeder has had her dogs on raw for many years now, even feeds them whole deer carcasses, but even she starts off the young puppies on a ground mixture.
She sent my pup and me home with a free 3-week supply of ground up puppy-food (meats, organs, bones).

Most of his meals for the first few weeks were ground up, with only one, maybe two small pieces of RMBs per day.

I was also advised to start out with something easy like chicken backs, not the harder wings or legs.


It sounds like your puppy is just a little ahead of itself in trying to digest all those bones right away. I'd give him a few more weeks of "support" with ground meats and bones (or just mash up the bones) so that you let his system mature before expecting him to dissolve big chunks of bone.


Just a thought!

(And no, my pup has never pooped out pieces of bones, and certainly not blood!)

Also, I don't remember if you said you fed turkey wings at some point (or maybe that was someone else - it's hard to keep track sometimes ).

I just remembered that even once my pup was old enough to handle larger amounts of chicken wings and other meaty bones, his breeder still told me to stay away from turkey wings because they're too hard for puppies.

I recently got the chance to feed a turkey wing (never had before) and boy did I see what she meant!!

Now that my young male is 11 months (and 95 lbs. lol) he has no trouble handling it of course, but there's no way I'd feed something that hard to a young puppy.
He ate a whole turkey leg last night -- in about 3 minutes -- and it looked so intimidating to me (HUGE with a THICK rock-hard bone).

I almost reconsidered letting him eat that scary bone - good thing he was quick with his meal before I could change my mind

Anyway as you found out, it's a good idea to be careful with bones, especially with a young puppy. As he grows his system will get more efficient at dissolving the bones, he just needs a gradual build-up to that point.

Best of luck with little Ruy!!!

I called a third vet and he said it was not necessary to bring him yet. He said that if it was either an obstruction or perforation, he wouldn't be hungry or jumping around. He said that if blood persisted, or diarrhea, then to take him.

So I fed him some of the duck I had. No bones, just meat with a little bit of fat and some of the liver. He was eating like a maniac. He munched on the neck, and was crushing it, but I just let him rip off some of the flesh and took it away.

I took him outside and his stool was small but solid, but then I saw it had another bone in it! I'm like, wtf? Bone was a little smaller than the last one, but was an undigested bone nevertheless. No blood whatsoever, so I was relieved in that sense.

Later he went again, but it was dark and I couldn't see it. Judging by his demeanor, he's fine and dandy.

Yes Judy, this experience was a little jolting. But I won't give up just yet on raw. I feel exactly the way Connie does about raw feeding and the benefits of actually chewing and grinding food. I'm sure it helps him soothe his gums and exercise, and releasing some of that stress (my boy has a lot of prey drive. He's running around the house in circles as we speak). But I will definitely be feeding more ground from now on, and will be hand feeding him (as painful as it will be) to make sure he crushes those bones when I feed him RMB. Last couple of days I've let him eat alone in his crate due to serious hand injury caused by his biting. So I am guessing this could've also contributed to the whole pooping of bones.

I haven't fed turkey wings, but will pass if you say so, Yuko. The bones my pup pooped looked like wing bones. Now that I think about it, chicken backs seem like better bones to feed. I'll just freeze all the wings and do them Buffalo style once a week, lol.

I will take it slower from now on. I'm glad nothing serious happened. I'm starting to get attached to this little trooper. Thanks for all the help and support. Much appreciated

Here's a couple of new pictures of Ruy having fun:

Pic 1
Pic 2

Edited by Richard Pryor (03/13/2007 09:51 PM)
Edit reason: to add pics

Chicken backs -- the perfect soft-bone starter food..... or for any age dog. Many a raw diet uses chicken backs and necks for the base.

Backs even have organ meat attached!

No downside, IMHO -- they are even the cheapest of all chicken cuts. And if they are very meaty, they replicate the bone-meat ratio of the whole animal. If they are cut to be less meaty, you can add meat.

JMO. I became very fond of using chicken backs when I switched a 15-year-old pre-owned girl who had major dental challenges, with many missing teeth. I ground up most of her stuff, but she handled chicken backs like a little wolf. An 8-pound wolf.

I am not a puppy-savvy person, but it would seem to be a good starter food.