Quote: SteveZorn

I agree that there is way too much grain in most pet foods, .....

Me too.

You know, I was just reading some more info Wolves diets and I am wrong about the fish issue. There are wolves in some areas that do supplement their diet with fish. I stand corrected.
I also found this site that I think the raw food people should read. I also want to say that I am not against the raw diet, but, I think that this guys site is worth reading. Dr. Billingshurst did and in his rebuttal did admit that there is risk involved.
http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/wolf_mike.html
Read these especially:
Mike on the Wolf Diet
A Dangerous Fad?
Raw Meat Myths
Again, I am not against it, I just think that this is good reading from a guy who runs a sanctuary for wild wolves.

I had read that before, but missed a couple of things.

"I also give out canine vitamins just like they were treats." Yikes!

Also, is there a little confusion in the article about the Billinghurst b.a.r.f. recommendations?

Billinghurst (the b.a.r.f. pioneer) recommends a lot of produce. But in discussing what this article calls "the BARF craze," he says "And then what about the vegetable matter part of that balance? That is a learned and acquired taste for a canine ... but something that I think is needed for that balance in nutrition."

So I'm not clear about why the author thinks (or seems to think) that Billinghurst's b.a.r.f. is a no-produce diet.

This statement: "Note that it takes a 5 times more meat (in volume) to make up the same calories and nutrients that is a good quality kibble" ....... Is that really saying that it takes 5 cups of meat to equal the "calories and nutrients" in one cup of kibble?

I do like to read all kinds of opinions about raw and kibble and home-cooked and everything else, though.

P.S. I believe that the author is absolutely correct about the risks in feeding any diet, whether raw or canned or kibble or home-cooked. Not one is risk-free.

 Quote: SteveZorn

You know, I was just reading some more info Wolves diets and I am wrong about the fish issue. There are wolves in some areas that do supplement their diet with fish. I stand corrected.

I didn't know that. How do they do it? Like bears, fishing with their paws?

I was a little unclear on some of his reasoning also, but, I think that he makes some good points.
As to how they catch the fish, I have no idea. In one of the articles it did mention that a ranger or someone studying wolves (don't remember) watched one wolf catch and eat five fish in about 15 minutes. Who knew???

 Quote: SteveZorn

As to how they catch the fish, I have no idea. In one of the articles it did mention that a ranger or someone studying wolves (don't remember) watched one wolf catch and eat five fish in about 15 minutes. Who knew???

If you ever come across that again, I would love a link.

The link to the part about a biologist observing a wolf catch fish.
http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/WolfPrey.html

You have to read down a bit.

http://www.boomerwolf.com/hunt5.htm

Very cool! The second one is saying (I think) that they actually catch fish in the mouth!

Also, QUOTE: Wolves will also eat wild berries and other fruit as a minor part of their diet. END

Yes, this was clear in the Yellowstone videos. Even in time of abundant prey (not famine at all) they were eating some ripe berries and some tender greens.

In answer to your question about the five cups of meat for one cup of kibble. I think that what he is trying to say here is that the meat/poultry meal that is used in kibble is five times the size in content in its whole form (total moisture content). In other words if you take five pounds of meat in its whole form and remove the moisture content to make it in to a meal form (which is what is used in kibble) it will only weigh 1 pound after that water is removed.
1lb of meat meal = 5lbs of whole meat

I do not know of any kibble that is 100% meat/poultry/etc meal.