Hey JParker, thanks for that link. I think the proponets of a raw diet are making better sense.

Lizardlady, as you may have read I do combine raw and kibble. Do you know the argument for why that is supposedly bad? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Paul,
The main reason I hear for not feeding raw and kibble is the different digestion rates of the two...seems like the kibble takes 8 hours or so to digest and the raw only 2-3 hours. I may be off a little bit on the times but that gives a general idea.

Richard, I agree with everything you said. However, think of it this way. Do you think you'll be a healthier person at 65 if you've eaten processed foods all your life, or a balanced diet of a variety of fresh foods?
I would like to see some cold hard facts on BARF as well, because I really want to do what's best for my dogs.

I'd REALLY like to see the Pottenger study!

Lizardlady, I don't endorse Cusick, he well could be a quack. I just thought his stuff was interesting.

Paul, supposedly raw and kibble digest at different rates and should at least be fed at separate meals. I have chatted with many people that feed both kibble and raw.

I feed raw/BARF. Have done so for many years and fed kibble and raw for many years before that (total of 20 years). I have watched my dogs eat every imaginable type of animal poop, field mice, dead things, and some VERY ripe eggs that my chickens had hidden. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If they were going to die from bacteria or salmonella, well.... I just don't worry about it because it would have happened by now.

Friend of mine feeds Canidae. She was unable to find a source of raw at an affordable price. I raised two of her puppies from 8 weeks to almost 7 months, then sent one puppy back. Both girls switched to raw with no problems at all and the one girl switched back to Canidae with no problems. There are good quality kibbles out there, I just chose to not feed any processed foods to my dogs.

J, there may be a study on BARF going on right now. I remember reading about it somewhere. Problem is that most true scientific studies require a lot of monetary backing and so the only ones doing these studies right now are the pet food companies.

 Quote:

However, think of it this way. Do you think you'll be a healthier person at 65 if you've eaten processed foods all your life, or a balanced diet of a variety of fresh foods?

We constantly hear that the downfall of American health has been due to all of the eating of precessed foods. If this can have so much affect on the health of humans why then do we not think it to be so with our dogs? Do we really think people would be better off eating Purina People Chow (yuck, I just envisioned Soylant Green <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )? Then why is this OK for our dogs? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

JParker,

"Do you think you'll be a healthier person at 65 if you've eaten processed foods all your life, or a balanced diet of a variety of fresh foods?"

First, let's not even talk about what I eat. It would scare you to death, on the other hand my dogs have always had a high quality food. I have little to no problems with them. I edited my earlier post so you may want to go re-read it. My dogs don't get sick often.

What I am noticing in the health of breed seems to be more genetic than dietary. Many breeds have diseases that are chacteristic to the breed. The more popular the breed becomes the more problems that creep up. That is part of the reason I tend to stick to rare breeds. The less popular breeds have always served me well. With the Papillions our dogs lived on average to 20. Care and sound genetics seem to contribute more to health of breeds than just diet. Yeah a lousy diet will affect it, but so many problems seem to be breed specific. This is just my not so humble opinion, but if the problem was consistant (prepared foods) the health problems should be more consistant. That is not the case.

Everybody jumps on one or more bandwagons when the quality of a breed goes down and blames the problem on things that they "have no control over" rather than looking at the breedings and stopping breeding dogs that throw problems. Every breeder I have seen will tell you that their dogs don't have the problem, and then it creeps up and gets blamed on the food or vaccinations or something the owner did. The fact that problem is consistant in the breed and not in other breeds has "nothing" to do with it.
Sound care and good food will go a long way to prevent most problems, but you have to start with a sound dog. Perhaps many of the cited problems are more of a breeding issue than a dietary issue?

OK. So foods eaten together yet digesting at differing rates is a bad thing?

I don't suppose there is anybody out there advocating a raw one day and kibble the next day diet, huh?

I guess I need to talk to my wife and go 100% natural. One other thing, by feeding my dogs boneless (uncooked, thawed after frozen at least 3 days) chicken, do you think I'm depriving them of nutrition?

Thanks all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Just as there are differing opinions among doctors on the optimal diet for humans, so is there for dogs.

I've been feeding raw for quite some time though I did have many reservations in the beginning. However, when I found out what went in whats considered high quality kibble, that scared me even more. I do need to feed kibble on occasion, but the one I use has no 'meal' or other ambiguous ingredients.

I have spoken to many people who wonder why their dogs just can't seem to make the transition. One common problem is they don't freeze their meat first. I freeze all meat at very cold temperatures for at least 4 days to kill whatever bacteria can be killed by freezing. I also thoroughly rinse the meat.

I have zero hard scientific evidence that raw is best for my dogs. However, they're always very healthy and they do enjoy it more than kibble. It works for me.

Paul,
All foods, and there components will digest at different rates, this is natural.

To clarify I am not a proponent of raw diets, but if you do decide to feed a raw diet, feeding a single (instead of multiple)protein source for extended periods of time increases your chance of amino acid deficiency or imbalance. From I understand about raw feeding, and again I have not put any effort into researching it, one of the methods used to prevent deficiencies is a varied diet-with the logic being that if the individual nutrient patterns of beef, chicken, etc. are not ideal, by alternating between them the risk of deficiency or imbalance will decrease

Just a note, my understanding is that freezing kills the parasites, not the bacteria. Cooking the meat kills the bacteria.

Richard, my question was hypothetical. But, you do raise some interesting points regarding genetics vs. diet. Do you have any scientific research to back your opinion? What do you consider a high quality kibble? What criteria do you use to decide what is high quality?

Are you trying to tell me that diet has nothing to do with overall health? Surely you're not suggesting that.

BTW, I didn't know you could edit posts. It won't let me do that.