Steve, I certainly won't attack you for that - I don't think everyone has to feed raw and I think there are some really good quality kibbles out there. I personally PREFER to feed raw because I like the idea of it - but I DON'T buy my meat from Walmart, or Costco, or any other cheap, bulk retailer - I wouldn't feed myself food from there, and I won't feed my dog. He gets only what I would eat. That said, the difference in price between the quality meat at my supermarket and the locally raised, free-range, organic meat that my coop sells is pretty great and not everyone can afford to shop solely from those sources - some people can't afford fancy kibble either... (maybe these people shouldn't have dogs at all, but the truth is, there are a lot of them out there).

Now, ready for the rant?
IMO, The most important thinking I hope the world does after all of these recalls and reports isn't about WHAT specifically we're eating or how we choose to feed our pets, but the simple and sad fact that it's becoming harder and harder to keep ALL of our food sources pure and free of contaminants and toxins. Humans are at risk, animals are at risk, carnivores are at risk and even vegetarians (contaminated spinach anyone??) The more we cut corners and bow to corporate engines that disregard the environment and its natural systems - all in the name of the mighty dollar - the more we put ourselves at risk. ("we" is used here most figuratively)

 Quote: steve behnam

All those chemicals and diseases present in the original food source are passed on in a concentrated version.

It's called "bioaccumulation" and it's a very real danger to us all.

JMHO.

I hate to be a bubble burster and I will admit that I only read the first page of this thread but I just had to address one issue. Whilst everyone is putting down regular Walmart grade chicken and singing the praises of 'ORGANIC' meats I was asking myself, "Do these people know what "organic" really means in this country???? There are those who see the word "organic" and assume that it is made completely void of pesticides, hormones and bioengineered products. How wrong this assumption is. The government allows the word 'organic' to be used under certain circumstances. Just like they allow so many insect parts, hairs, etc...to be found in any of the foods we buy at the supermarket albeit we are expecting them to be free of those kinds of things. This 'organic' word walks a very very fine line in the USA and the USDA has very interesting definitions of just what constitutes an organic label. Here is a link that I thought most of you would find most enlightening...really, when it comes right down to it, unless we are willing to go back to basics and start growing our own foods and slaughtering our own meats we will be at the mercy of this contradiction. At this point mass production is all that big business care about and they will rally the special interest folks in our Congress to make sure that there is always a fence to be walked. I'm ready to get my own land and start growing my own fruits and veggies along with chickens and maybe a cow for my own milk and butter. If I could just find the land and the money to do so

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/organic.html

Sorry but I don't know where you have bought your Organic product , but we have visited organic farms and it is a huge difference from the farms that are raising Chicken in tight cages and inject them with tons of hormones and produce farms spray tons of pesticides that a red apples looks ashy.YES there is a difference!! If you have not gone and see for yourself do not make a statement about ORGANIC products.GO see for yourself instead of reading somewhere a little statement about it.When we order our Organic free range Turkey, the size alone is a huge flag to what is organic and what is not.We have been eating Organice meat and produce for over 7 years.And the taste many times is a dead give away.If you don't eat organic product that is fine and nothing wrong with it but don't down it just becuase you buy other than organic.Buy a tomatoe from the supermarket and then buy one from a farmers market, from a person that raises organic tomatoes and you'll finally realize what a tomatoes should taste like...

I've been to visit the plants of poultry and beef producers in my area.

Nothing is perfect, I know.... but at least as far as slaughter animals go, the difference between organic and non-, that I've seen, is huge.

Not perfect, but astronomically better.

JMO.

Agree, it's not perfect but there is difference.There are organic Farms that do not use hormones and that to me personally and for my family, it's huge.

 Quote: robbinmann

... I'm ready to get my own land and start growing my own fruits and veggies along with chickens and maybe a cow for my own milk and butter. If I could just find the land and the money to do so

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but have you ever tried to do subsistence farming?
It's really hard to find animal feed that isn't already "doctored" with antibiotics and such.
And I admire the people who can raise a food crop for themselves or their animals without using some sort of pesticide, because it is a TON of work.
This is why actual free-range organic meat is so expensive, and organic veggies cost out the wazoo.
And to pasture-raise even a couple of cows or hogs, you need a LOT of land, to keep a cow milking, you've got to have a neighbor with a bull, or money for AI, or own a bull yourself. And on and on and on.
I admire farmers, I was raised mostly rural myself and I know how hard they work.
Heck, my dinky little salad garden is a lot of work, because I refuse to dust it, so I spend a lot of time picking tomato worms off my plants. And a lot of my lettuce goes to fatten our cottontails, but such is life.

 Quote:

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but have you ever tried to do subsistence farming?
It's really hard to find animal feed that isn't already "doctored" with antibiotics and such.
And I admire the people who can raise a food crop for themselves or their animals without using some sort of pesticide, because it is a TON of work.

Actually, I've been using un-doctored feed for the most part for the past 8-10 years for both chickens and sheep. You can get a grain mix and them just add an appropriate vitamin/mineral mix. I'm able to buy feed from a local farm or feed store. It's not all organic, but a good deal of it is local grown and it is med free.

I stand corrected, thank you, Mara. It's been awhile since I bought animal feed. It used to be hard to find feed without the darn supplements and meds in it. Glad to hear it's easy to come by now.

It may be a little more difficult if you're away from "farming country". But it should still be do-able. The hardest feed to find w/o meds is that for young animals (ie lambs or chicks for me). I do use meds and antibiotics when needed, but hate the idea of feeding them to my animals just as a preventitive.

Well I am glad that alot of people including myself are a great support to our local farms and keep them in business , especially the farmers that take pride in their product, for some companies to go to CHINA to get their wheat is pretty pathetic, soon we'll be getting our apples from there.I think if you can spend a little more money to keep good farmers in USA make money and give them the chance to expand , spend it.ORGANIC or NOT.