Hi
Pedigrees give you a guide to Bloodlines but a piece of Paper cannot Be Obediant, it cannot sit to command and it cannot Down to Command and it cannot be a great Performace piece of Paper in Working. Genetices are strange something we cannot see, we try to control them but nine out of 10 times we Fail. Pigeon Breeding is more Complex than Dog Breeding or Horse Breeding The reason being we go so very close by Inbreeding and Line Breeding with the occasional Outcross then wipe out the outcross and go back to the base bloodline, I have know dozens of Champion Racers Costing anything from 20.000 Dollars to near 100.000 Dollars and Bred nothing worth its loft room, on occasions the children came on to pass the winning genes but a lot of times not
I cannot see it is any different with Dogs, Okay you have the potenial with the top Bloodlines Better chance than with inferior lines of course, Most Champions of any species is bred by chance not by the skill of us humans, In Pigeons they call it a Super Couple, But most times you will see both are One year Old Birds, called (Yearlings) No chance of proving there ability Racing because of there age, But they happen to pair together and Breed Champions, then the breeder calls them a super couple takes the credit for something he did not do.
I hope this does not stir it up too much

Another thing about pedigrees and the pedigree pricing I see so often. I see people asking $1500- 2500 for an 8-10 week old pup, as so many people know pups are such a crap shoot. If I was to spend that much on a dog I am going to pick a green dog 12-18 months that has proven nerves/drives ect. I here so many people promising the world of the pups and that is a big red flag to me. How can you promise so much out of a 8 week old dog
( no way ) IMO

Kevin, from what I've seen, at least in GSD's, is young pups from excellent schutzhund breeders with excellent pedigrees & proven parents average $1,500 up to $2,500.

Green dogs 12 - 18 months same qualifications as above, plus started in schutzhund, plus x rays with at least good hips & elbows $4,000 & up - IF YOU CAN FIND THEM AT ALL in USA!!! The reason is most are not starting dogs with an eye to selling them green.

Europe is different, but you must know what you are doing or have someone who knows what they are doing to find the right dog. Europeans have no respect for people who don't know what they are doing and just throw money around as if that's the answer to finding a good dog.

Susan-
Yes you are correct on what you have said.. and you are exactly right they are extremely hard to find in the States. I will P.M you about prices I see to import green dog for me.

 Quote: susan tuck

Kevin, from what I've seen, at least in GSD's, is young pups from excellent schutzhund breeders with excellent pedigrees & proven parents average $1,500 up to $2,500.

Green dogs 12 - 18 months same qualifications as above, plus started in schutzhund, plus x rays with at least good hips & elbows $4,000 & up - IF YOU CAN FIND THEM AT ALL in USA!!!

I've read/heard this before too. Add to the price if the dog begins to earn titles...

I bought the perfect pup now dog from Dean and I paid $1200 , this dog is worth every penny AND MORE,( maybe I owe him :grin I could not get that kind of dog TODAY from any other breeder and pay that price again...
And he is everything Dean said he would be pretty amazing if you ask me ,to predict a pup as an adult and be absolutely 100% right.

My point exactly! Great breeder, great pedigree, sire & damn proven on the field. This pup was worth every penny and then some even at 8 weeks old. In fact, he was a steal!

He was and you know I almost want to say I paid more but the truth is I paid much more for dogs with half of the drives(if not less) years ago.Dean was referred to me by Gino( a member) who really respects Dean and has seen a lot of his dogs ect..I am very happy I made that call..
We have some members that paid 1500 for their pup and is worth 500.And it's not the price I look at it's the breeder! People fall in love with the dogs on the web site and the breeder at the end of the phone line who sounds like your best buddy, yet these breeders have not done their homework and barely know anything about what makes a dog a sport,ppd,family pet! And to add, breed bad bones! but they get some guy /gal to send them 1500 sight unseen, and then when they get the puppy it's love at first sight ,cause after all they paid good money-must be hell nice- so they don't see what WE see when they show up with their pup that looks like a bad bred German shepherd and bad temperament to follow, but hey you can't say "HEy you got really ripped off" you simply don't say much and think to yourself "Thank God I didn't pay for it"...
My philosophy is , don't look at the price but look very closely at the breeder and his dogs he's breeding all year round..

Of course if you are really serious you can pay $3,500 for a pup who's sole claim to fame & reason for being is he is related to Rin Tin Tin............I'm serious as a heart attack.

I know plenty here in Vegas that think the higher the price for a shepherd the better it must be