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a household where NO DOG is allowed to be dominant over others IS a very DIFFICULT route to take, this is why i do not recommend this strategy to most people!

Can you give a little bit of detail here as far as how much dominance and what you recommend allowing? Thanks.

Thanks for the clarification Kacie. I can see how things can get confusing, but I got it - the pros can take liberties that others shouldn't (to start anyway) because they know how to avoid trouble, but I can easily see that there are multiple ways of "leading" the pack...

I will go ahead and put myself in the "most people" category ... it's just my BF and I, we have no kids (Oscar is it ) but he's our first crack at a big male dog who actually behaves like a BIG MALE DOG! He's been a challenge and a great learning experience, but at present, I'm not sure his 2.5 years has given me all the know how I'll need to reign supreme over MULTIPLE sharp male dogs... then again, the only way to get the first-hand experience is to give things a try...

I'm truly impressed by your ability and hope that one day I'll be able to just "make it work" on MY terms as well. I love dogs far too much to only have one forever!

Cheers,
Natalya

 Quote: natalya zahn

So, does the above statement mean that you use a sort of rotating favoring of not necessarily the "top" dog, but the dog that at that moment is displaying the best behavior? Wouldn't that be in contradiction to the: pet the TOP dog first, let HIM eat first, let HIM through doors first, etc. strategy...? (Not picking on you, it sounds like you're methods work beautifully... )

Also, would you describe any of your dogs as really "dominant"? Has your absence of rank trouble maybe been in part because you don't have any dominant/dominant combinations? I'm just thinking out loud here...

AND, with all that said, would you suggest that most of these issues have to do with proper human pack leadership? Therefore, if I in particular wanted a new male pup (dominant or not), I should just make it absolutely clear who the alpha is (ME) and create an environment where NO DOG is allowed to display dominance towards another? I've only heard that this route can be a difficult one...

~Natalya

Natalya, I agree with Kacie. I have seen this done before, but it's only worked with experienced, consistent people. With newbie people it can become a disaster.

I have the first season DVD and remember an episode where a couple has 3 dogs. 2 Akita's and a Shepherd mix I think. The reason they called Cesar was because they thought the Shepherd mix (Alice) was causing all the trouble, when in fact it was the Akita female. They allowed that dog to sleep on their bed with them, and not the others. When they would give the other dogs attention, the Akita female, would attack the next in line, (Shepherd). Cesar said they had to treat them all the same I'm guessing to let the dogs pick status, without allowing aggression? He also said to exercise them, in the AM. On that same video I've seen Cesar feeding 40 or so dogs. I'm sure there is a group of 5-10 alpha dogs he rotates. As long as he let's that group know he's alpha, the other dogs follow I guess. It's a good method for teaching the dogs to stay as calm as possible.

He is amazing. I lived in the same city he's from in Mexico. Wish I would've had the chance to meet him.

Edited by Alex Corral (07/13/2007 03:19 PM)
Edit reason: Spelling

Thanks Kacie. I'm clear on zero. I just would like an Idea how much dominant behavior would be acceptable in average joe pet owners home. Or am I just miss reading that one sentence? Thanks again.

oohh... average joe... got it!

in the average home subtletly is key. appropriate dominance is equal to walking through doors first, eating first, getting the first petting of the day, getting the favorite sleeping place, getting the favorite toy, etc. A fair dominant dog will even pick and choose... i've seen dogs give up a toy or a couch to another dog who is clearly the subordinate of the two, but come near the first dog's food bowl and look out!

i consider inappropriate dominance to involve things such as mounting (some people disagree on this, but i personally would never allow one dog to mount another in a display of dominance), lunging across the room just because another dog walks in when Mr. Dominant has a bone... really anything that seems overly aggressive. If Mr. Dominant snaps at or bites a subordinate simply because the human is petting the lower ranking dog first, i would consider that very inappropriate. But if Mr. Dominant pushes the subordinate dog out of the way to get a petting it would be more appropriate.

whether it's appropriate dominance or not will depend on the individual situation. this is why i give my clients a lot of homework geared towards learning canine psychology, so they can learn to apply it in different situations and determine what is dominance and what is aggression.

 Quote: steve strom

Thanks Kacie. I'm clear on zero. I just would like an Idea how much dominant behavior would be acceptable in average joe pet owners home. Or am I just miss reading that one sentence? Thanks again.

I think she's saying "zero" for EVERYONE, average joes AND Kacie's - multiple dog households *should* not tolerate ANY displays of dominance. The confusion may have come from discussing dominance vs. dog/dog correction (for things like stealing food/toys), which she DOES allow, under certain circumstances... or just doesn't correct for herself, as the dog is justified in some cases... do I have that right???

For my own sanity, we just might get a little female - Oscar would probably like her BETTER if she was dominant with HIM! I just love the boys though...

~Natalya

Great explanation, thanks for taking the time.

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Oscar would probably like her BETTER if she was dominant with HIM!

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I think she's saying "zero" for EVERYONE, average joes AND Kacie's - multiple dog households *should* not tolerate ANY displays of dominance.

yes, dominance displays usually just cause trouble (i.e. mounting, throwing a head over the shoulder of another dog). the difference is in my house no one is treated like the dominant dog, and in Average Joe's house there is a dominant dog and he'll have certain privileges (such as eating first).