Jenni, That site was a real eye opener. I thought I would be able to go on there an get it right away, but it took me four guesses and five min of looking to figure it out.

Even more revealing, my sister is an animal control officer, and it took her ten! She's planning on sending that link to the others she works with as well.

When even the ACOs can't tell the difference, how are they supposed to enforce the laws???

 Quote: jenni williams

If you find the time, take the "Can you find the Pit Bull" quiz online. http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html It's an eye-opener. The dogs that are mistaken for Pits amaze and horrify me almost daily. My Chihuahua was called a "baby Pit Bull"-no joke.

Glad you chimed in on this Jenni - I was waiting for your wrath after that seemingly 'pro pit bull ban' comment...

VERY interesting quiz... I will admit I narrowed down the mix to only THREE that I wasn't sure about. But your point about the public's ambiguity in understanding this breed and the generalized demonizing of a particular "look" of dog (for lack of real information) is well put. I own an RR and when he was younger (and smaller) he got a fair number of "pit-mix?" comments. The truth is, through the eyes of people unfamiliar with the vast variety of canines in the world (so MOST people! )some purebred dogs, and many mixed breed dogs, can look a lot like breeds other than their true heritage - this would be the case even if pit bulls had a fantastic reputation. I think the most important issue is one that Alex pointed out, and we all know is true - if true Pit Bulls, and even all "pit bull"-like breeds were completely exterminated, the same complete morons who used to own/abuse/neglect & poorly train and handle them would simply switch breeds to the next most intimidating and powerful in line (Rotts, Dobes, Bullmastiffs, etc). The problem lies with bad ownership, and BSL does nothing to change that.

~Natalya

 Quote: jenni williams

Let's call a spade a spade, a Pit Bull a Pit Bull, and a stripper a stripper.

Haha! So true, I only say "exotic dancer" because I was in association with her. I never stripped, nor wanted to be a stripper, so aside from driving her to and from shows I wanted no association with that field of work due to the people we had as clientelle. Lemme just say that being a guard at a show in a doctor's house while his wife and kids slept upstairs was a bit overwhelmingly beyond what I wanted my life experiences to encompass, and my personal morals came into question. Not for what her job was, but for the people we catered to.
So yeah, true true! I just didn't wanna be known as "THE STRIPPER DRIVER OMG" to everyone out there, since it's not the most highly looked upon job in any sense or association. I'm happy to say both her dogs are in good hands now though, her male was given to her mom and spends his days neutered and lounging on couches watching TV.

 Quote: jenni williams

I have a blue fawn APBT, which only means that she's a very pretty dog with a blue nose, blue lined eyes, and beautiful eyes that match her coat. BUT, in scumbag currency, she's like gold. I have a 6'privacy fence so no one sees her in the yard; I worry about her being stolen. Although, she's of proper APBT conformation, so maybe they won't recognize her after all!

I bet she's a beauty! And true that, I found one person who owned a Bull Terrier and swore up and down it was purebred white pit bull. Needless to say, I didn't argue. Tomato, tomahtoe. Bull Terrier, purebred white pit. 9.9; I realize we can't all be canine scholars and know every aspect of our particular dog's breed, lineage, breed history, conformation standard, and the last 6 famous working and conformation showring champions ... but.. it isn't hard to look up the true name of the breed. Really.

edit: Ah! Took me two tries to find the real APBT, but I love that quiz.

Edited by Jinn Schmitz (07/14/2007 04:33 PM)
Edit reason: added quiz results.

Natalya-Wrath?!?!? Who, me? Am I really so predictable?

I'm glad I posted that quiz. I've been meaning to for a while and kept forgetting. Pit Bulls, properly bred, are rather generic looking dogs. They are not supposed to be these exaggerated, bow-legged, huge-headed, overly-muscled creatures that are being bred to increase the egos of morons. Very few dogs who fit most average people's description of a "pit bull" are actually APBTs. More often than not, they're mixes of English Bulldogs, Boxers, American Bulldogs, AmStaffs, certain Mastiffs, etc. When you cross a breed that can be dog-aggressive with a much larger breed that can be human-aggressive, dominant, etc., and then put it in the hands of complete idiots and criminals, you have a very dangerous combo. Still, NOT THE DOGS' FAULT!

I have yet to hear of an overly educated person supporting a breed ban. Yes, I will probably offend someone with this statement. I mean educated in the topic on the table: Pit Bulls. I would bet my life that the breed ban supporters and legislators would NOT pass that quiz. How can you enforce such legislature when you can't even tell a Pit Bull from a Patterdale Terrier or an American Bulldog?

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Natalya-Wrath?!?!? Who, me? Am I really so predictable?

Only in a way that makes me wish I had the guts to use your tone sometimes!

 Quote: Jenni Williams

I would bet my life that the breed ban supporters and legislators would NOT pass that quiz. How can you enforce such legislature when you can't even tell a Pit Bull from a Patterdale Terrier or an American Bulldog?

I can only guess: they'll just confiscate and kill a LOT OF DOGS, only a fraction of which will be Pit Bulls.... Makes me want to hurt somebody just thinking about it - and that's really not my style.

~Natalya

 Quote: jenni williams

How can you enforce such legislature when you can't even tell a Pit Bull from a Patterdale Terrier or an American Bulldog?

Well, the answer is so obvious, how could ANY of us misunderstand it? If the general public thinks it looks like their idea of a pit bull, well by golly it is a man-eating baby-shredding biomechanically strengthened pit bull and it's going to be euthanized! Even if the animal control or whomever official enforcing the ban is aware that such an animal in custody for a "pit crime" isn't a "pit bull", I'd bet they would be under pressure to put the animal down anyway because that's what will make the American public feel safer. Not to release the dog back into the public with a slap on the wrist to the people and a chastisement for mistaking a Dogo Argentino for an APBT. To the general (caninely) under-educated people, if they feel safer knowing that "vicious pit bulls" are banned, they're going to do it, not go out and educate themselves on the differences between mistaken pit-breeds and learn proper ways to handle situations that arise with dog-people aggression.

That's how I see it at least, sadly. I wish it weren't that way.

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Natalya-Wrath?!?!? Who, me? Am I really so predictable?

Only in a way that makes me wish I had the guts to use your tone sometimes!

Aw, shucks. My tone has gotten me in trouble my whole life. But about this, I will not relent. Not even a little bit.

Jinn, you're totally right...

I gotta go find another link I've been meaning to post...

http://www.workingpitbull.com/aboutpits.htm

A few excerpts:

Don't friendly, well trained pit bulls just "snap" and attack sometimes? "In reviewing and studying over 448 cases of fatal dog attacks in the United States, it is apparent that the three most critical factors that contribute to a fatal dog attack are: function of the dog, owner responsibility and reproductive status of the dog. There is no documented case where a single, neutered, household pit bull was the cause of a human fatality.” Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks

But aren't pit bulls "inherently dangerous"? If you think so, then consider the facts: In 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005, according to the American Temperament Test Society breed statistics, the "pit bull" (American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire and Staffordshire bull) out performed the golden retriever, a breed noted for its gentle temperament.

I read somewhere, a long time ago, that someone investigating the breed ban somewhere in Ohio found that everything from labs to boxers to great danes were subject to the law because the enforcers couldn't tell them apart from the breeds banned.

I have no source and can't remember the credibility (haha), but the point is, it terrifies me that people enforcing these laws don't necessarily know what they're looking for. I mean, I'm not in support of breed bans in the first place, but I'm especially terrified at the prospect of me being stopped by an officer...Jenga is constantly being mistaken for a pitbull or pit mix although I don't see it. As I've mentioned before, I feel like I have to carry his papers with me! At least he's not brindle, because we ALL know that anything brindle HAS to be a pit. Watch out, those of you with dutchies!

Okay, I'm going to stop before I get so angry I pass out (seriously, when I heard the legislation was passed here, all the blood rushed to my head and I had to lay down).

My greatest sympathy to anyone in any way affected by breed bans...





EDIT: Oh, and Jenni, I LOVE telling people about the temperament test results. Half the time it requires a trip to the computer to prove it, nobody ever believes me!

 Quote: Heather Williams

I read somewhere, a long time ago, that someone investigating the breed ban somewhere in Ohio found that everything from labs to boxers to great danes were subject to the law because the enforcers couldn't tell them apart from the breeds banned. ...

I have posted this before, but it still stuns me when I think about it: One of my dogs is a big Pug -- he's 100% Pug, and looks exactly like all Pugs, except he's at the bigger end of the range (tall, long). A couple coming towards us on a walk pointed to the Pug and asked if he was all Pit Bull or a Pit mix.

Seriously.