no worries brad....i have to admit i've no clue what to do at this point, i really think they'll be lucky if the dogs aren't involved in a bigger confrontation/attack. i'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but at some point....

i'll keep you updated on the kennel. i've never wanted a business to not suceed so badly, just b/c i cringe at the thought of what might happen. it's funny - our other friend yells at her, so now i'm the only one who gets told all this stuff that is happening. plus my friend is firm that teagan is a more dangerous dog than rocky, so that people should be more upset i bring teagan places (as rocky has bitten twice on outdoor club trips, sending another volunteer to the hospital once - not to mention the time (he's hiked off-leash) he went through an electric fence and rounded up some cows into a pond (holy stress on them!) and she just watched. other members went to get rocky back - anyways, there is an 'anti-rocky' contingent). but teagan is under strict control, and i do make use of tools like the muzzle and prong. i think in my friend's mind, b/c i 'need' to use those things i have a dangerous dog out of control - whereas i see i have a dog that could be dangerous but isn't b/c i set myself up to be the leader and control teagan, vs. her dogs, which i see as dangerous b/c they're not controlled. to my friend, having to use something like a muzzle says there's a problem, and she doesn't like to admit that there is a problem w/the dogs. IMO.

carol, i know what you mean. it's just so frustrating. thanks.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink."
That saying reminds of this situation.

 Quote:

i do make use of tools like the muzzle and prong. i think in my friend's mind, b/c i 'need' to use those things i have a dangerous dog out of control

Here's a comaprison for your friend: A semi-automatic 9mm pistol... one in the possession of a highly skilled and ethical LE officer, the other in the possession of a gang banger hepped up on meth... Same tool, with the same purpose and function, but I think that any person with the slightest degree of reason can see the potential harm when the tool is placed in the wrong hands!

Stop wasting your breath with these people girl, you're gonna give yourself an ulcer.

 Quote: Brad . Martin

Stop wasting your breath with these people girl, you're gonna give yourself an ulcer.

....but it will go so well with my bruised forehead from hitting my head against the wall.

thanks brad. this is one of those things that i want to make better, and can't, but i drive myself crazy about it anyways.

i can never figure out why they seem so opposed to things like muzzles, though i have a sneaking suspicion that it is a)the appearance of having a muzzled dog; and b)it would take work to train the dogs to muzzles. i'd say they're going to have to learn w/the muzzle order but i honestly wonder if they'll comply with it.

but i will go breathe deeply for awhile

Well being in Ontario it's probably choice "A". Even if you walk a pug in muzzle, in this province you have a VICIOUS PITBULL!!!

Ya know, maybe they are so tired of hearing advise from people that they have just simply shut down and are no longer receptive to any kind of criticism, constructive or otherwise. At some point they will have to face reality or face loosing their dogs, that will be your opportunity to provide your input; just avoid saying, "I told you so!!"

oh yes, those terrible, scary, pitbulls.... i always thought it was funny a lovely well-behaved dog could be forced into a muzzle while a dog like rocky is not....but then BSL is obviously idiotic.

i do try not to be too pushy - it usually comes up in context, like yesterday when she emailed me and told me trixie bit a woman over the weekend. she always tells me everything that's happening with the dogs (since i don't scream at her, i guess), i get stories everyday, and i'm often at a loss to respond in a polite constructive way while trying to make it clear that this is serious. but i do agree part of this is probably also that she just doesn't want to hear the issues - she doesn't want to face them in anyway, including in advice from others.

but good call....i'm just going to express polite interest, until she really comes forward wanting to change. she has a few times, hence them taking the dogs to aggression control classes
(edit to finish the sentence) but they don't seem to be taking it seriously right now. edit again: for instance, trixie was very poorly behaved in their aggression control class yesterday, but it's just 'oh well' to them, so i didn't say anything, b/c to me, there just wasn't a point.

This is posting a bit out of seqense, and yes, I know the twins died. However, you did say the owners were going to try again. If she does have a child and they still have the dogs, and the situation is the same;PLEASE contact Child Welfare or whatever the department is call up there. The possable new chid does not deserve to be injured or killed, just because it's parents are dangerous idiots about their dogs.

Jennifer: I have not read all the posts, but have you tried warning your friend that she may get sued by someone, maybe the very next person her dog bites? That might shake her up a bit.